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26-Jan-2006
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#21 | |
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bonsaiTALK Expert
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Quote:
 Only into Bonsai for about 4 years, but I've always used window screening (vinyl, not wire), and my pots drain just fine without repotting for 2 years. I also use a potting mix with more organics in it than many other people (which in theory would lead to more break down in soil, leading to poor drainage), and I still don't have drainage problems. I learned to do this from the guy who got me into and first taught me about bonsai. He's run a nursery for between 15-20 years, and presumably has been into bonsai for longer than that. He uses window screening as a drainage mesh, which is where i learned to do so. He also uses a much more organic soil than I've ever seen (considerably more than I dare use). It seems that nobody has told his trees that this isn't supposed to work, because he's got some beauties - couldn't have gotten then that way if they weren't healthy, and wouldn't have been healthy if the window screen was insufficient as a drainage mesh. My two cents, keep the change.  Toby
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26-Jan-2006
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#23 |
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Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Feb-2005
Location: Carlsbad, California..coastal desert
Country: United States
USDA Zone: 11
Posts: 5,445
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Drainage is in the eye of the beholder maybe? I used window screen at first, and more organics, and the trees did NOT do well. They were dry on the top, sopping wet on the bottom. Yes, the water would come out, but it drained really slowly. However, maybe with a flatter/wider pot, with lots of holes, and if the trees are tolerant of wet feet, they might do fine. The first summer I had the little elm, I kept it sitting in water for days at a time because I couldn't remember to water it regularly. It survived, and still does, but could have been a lot happier if I hadn't done that.
Anyone can make anything work. (Doesn't Naka I suggest using pot shards to cover the holes, or is than another older book? So many books!!) If the window screen works for you, then go for it. I like the plastic canvas because you can put wire through it easily, anchor the tree in by using wire passing up through it also without making it fold in on itself; the plastic canvas is also reusable and strong. The drainage is excellent as well. As the old saying goes "there's more than one way to skin a cat!". Whatever that is supposed to mean. Joanie
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26-Jan-2006
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#24 |
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bonsaiTALK Expert
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 Pictures of trees with vinyl window screen used as drainage, or the screen itself? If the later, look at your window. If the former, I hope you're not calling my integrity/trustworthiness into question. I have no reason to lie about this. I'm just telling you the way it is from my experience and from what I know to be the case. Unfortunately I have no camera, and the nursery I speak of is in Maine and I'm in Vermont at the moment. Perhaps sometime in the unforseeable future I could post picture here though. I do plan on getting that digital camera I so crave...someday. I'm willing to try a more coarse holed mesh though. Couldn't hurt, and maybe I'll even become a convert. As-is I have no basis of comparison, and can only say I've had no problems with drainage with window screening. Regards, Toby
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~Self-proclaimed dendrophile! Last edited by Tobias : 26-Jan-2006 at 10:57 PM. |
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26-Jan-2006
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#25 | |
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Bonsai nare-do-well
 
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Quote:
Not calling anybody's integrity to question. Just wanting to see the trees (not the screen). No problem with Maine. If you give me the name of the nursery I will contact them. I just want to see the results long term using the screen you are talking about |
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27-Jan-2006
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#26 |
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bonsaiTALK Adept
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Thanks for the info everyone. I can see we are familiar with rumors, wives tales, urban legends, etc, and that is why I asked in the first place....
Tobias - I had a conversation with a well known bonsai master a month ago about this exact thing - the definition of free draining soil. Up until two years ago I used a pre-made "bonsai soil" that had a high organic content and lots of fines. I used it for about 5-6 years and for the most part, I put water in and water came out. Is that not free draining? When I switched to my current mix of pumice, lava, Oil Dry and bark, I really understood what free draining meant - and my trees have grown better than they ever have. Now, I do not want to start another soil thread. I don't want to challenge anyone's integrity. I do not want to say that one way is the only way. I just wanted to state that there are varrying degrees of "free draining" or "non clogging" or whatever you want to call it. I am sure your trees are growing fine and your soil is draining fine - my past experience would concur to some degree. However, as you say yourself you might try it and become a convert, I suggest you give it a go and you won't be disappointed! Thanks again for all the responses Ron, Dale, Jerry and all the others...
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