Over potting vs. Ground planting

lanig

It is often advised to plant at fall to let the tree create roots before the following spring, but even in that case, I agree : during the following year, growth is often slower.

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rockm

"In the container it grows slower, but I can get the roots the way I like them from the get go. Those fibrous roots are much harder to get in ground and then you still have to pot them to work out that mess"

"I have found that trees (at least the ones I have worked with) tend to recover faster when potted. After you plant a tree into the ground in spring, it will probably not show much growth until the next season."

The first comment confuses what in ground growing is for. It is NOT for root refinement. It is for trunk development and other big jobs. Fiborous roots are sacrificed (generally speaking) in favor of gross development of the trunk. Fiborous roots close to the trunk are not enough to force big development in the trunk. A fibrous root system is a refinement, not part of the initial development of the tree. Root refinement is best done when the plant is containerized. That is part of the secondary development process.

The second comment is rather strange. Trees may seem to recover faster in containers because roots are warmer and there is alot less space for them to grow into. In the ground, root development may proceed well ahead of top development. Roots grow pretty fast and mostly unnoticed in the ground. This is a very important part of in ground planting and plant recovery. The plant may be pushing alot of roots and not a whole lot of top growth in the ground. Just because the tree isn't exploding with growth up top while in the ground, does NOT mean roots are sluggish...

PatArizona

Rockm says "...It is for trunk development and other big jobs...".

Realizing that trunk development rather than root development is the goal of in ground growing, if you still think that pot growing is better...for trunk and nebari development...try the following:

This works for MOST plants.

Pick up TWO plants, as close to identical as you can get, from a nursery...same species, same size, same health features, same trunk size, same branch sizes, same foliage mass...etc.

On the same day, pot up one in a training pot, and plant one in the ground. Now, make sure that you give both plants proper care...water, fert, repotting, light, shade, and whatever else is included in "proper care".

After 4-5 years, again, with proper care for both plants, check the two plants against each other, and I thing you will be a believer.

Document your progress with photos...about twice a year.

Try it...you may like it...?

Pat

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BONSAI isn't about surviving in a storm, rather, how to dance in the rain.
THE ONLY WAY: Always remember, and don't ever forget, that whatever you read here is not cast in concrete... the intent of any advice is to help. In no way should you feel that I’m saying that my way is the only way…heaven forbid! I've seen far too much of the "my way or the highway" attitude in bonsai as well as in other areas of life.

malik

Rockm...strange only begins to describe me.... I agree with your conclusion, but when i made my statement I wasn't talking about the root development, I was talking about top growth. basically i feel it comes down to this....if you are in it for the long term then ground planting with show the best results, but if you have a tree that is near complete and only needs a couple more years of growth then I would use a large pot. This is only my opinion.


Pat...I think the experiment is a great idea...have you by chance done so and if yes, can you share the results with us?

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rockm

"but if you have a tree that is near complete and only needs a couple more years of growth then I would use a large pot."

That is common practice...In ground planting is for "heavy lifting" of trunk development, to heal large pruning wounds and for development of heavy primary branching. All these are hugely accelerated if the plant is the ground.

In a container, finer development of a compact root pad, secondary branching and other refinement is done. You cannot accomplish that in the ground.

PatArizona

G'day Malik..

You said "...have you by chance done so...".

Wish I could say yes...but no.

However, I've had the opprtunity to observe the progress and results...not the comparison though.

As long as your goals are...as stated by Rockm "for "heavy lifting" of trunk development, to heal large pruning wounds and for development of heavy primary branching...", ground planting beats over potting, hands down!

From observation, discussions and reading...however, not from personal hands-on experience.

Pat

__________________
BONSAI isn't about surviving in a storm, rather, how to dance in the rain.
THE ONLY WAY: Always remember, and don't ever forget, that whatever you read here is not cast in concrete... the intent of any advice is to help. In no way should you feel that I’m saying that my way is the only way…heaven forbid! I've seen far too much of the "my way or the highway" attitude in bonsai as well as in other areas of life.