Over potting vs. Ground planting

rockm

"Do you believe that planting a tree in a pot slightly larger each time you repot will allow the tree to grow just a strong as if it were in the ground? Please back up your opinions."

Um, planting in a container restricts root run of the tree--simple physical fact. The less room the roots have, the less they will grow. The less they grow, the less the top of the tree grows. Simple fact, not opinion. The ground offers almsot limitless room for roots. Ever larger pots do not. Pots are not the ground, never will be, can't be.


"So unless it's been done for many years,like decades,or more,as with a collected tree,planting in the ground usually does not make too much of a diffrerence."

Bull...Ever planted a tree out to allow it to develop for bonsai stock? In-ground growing accelerate development of the trunks of trees exponentially compared to ANY container. There is a HUGE difference in using container only growing and the ground to develop nebari and trunks. Three to five years in ground will advance a tree ten to twenty times what growing in a container can do, depending on species...

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Attila

I agree with Rockm. I've been growing trees in the field for 15 years, and comparing them is like the story of "The tortoise and the hare" - except the ending. But the pitfall is that you can also end up like the hare, if you don't know what you are doing.

But field-grown trees grow incomparably faster. I have a trident maple that has a 5-inch diameter lower trunk. It took only 3.5 years from a cutting. The ones in pots are 0.75 inch, the same age. This is over 44 times faster, if we compare the area of the circle created by the base of the trunk.

I used to think that planting the tree in a large pot can create the same condition as field growing. Big mistake: growing in oversized pot creates waterlogged conditions, and the result is even worse then growing in a smaller pot. So the pot can be only slightly larger than the rootball, but not too much larger.

There is one way that you can improve speed while growing in pot: each year you plant the tree in a slightly larger pot, while doing a little root pruning. This way you don't overpot, but provide more room for the growing tree.

The only species where I didn't see much difference between growing in the ground or in nursery pot, are the japanese quince cultivars. Growing these in the ground did not result in large trunks, but rather produced suckers all over the place. In nursery pots, these suckers at least are close to the central trunk, so with time they can fuse together creating a turtle-shell like nebari. In the ground, they are too disbursed. I have one fast-growing flowering quince which benefited from field-growing, it is commonly called "winter-quince". This has a more upright, tree-like growing habit.

PatArizona

G'day Bonsainotwar...

You said "...planting in the ground usually does not make too much of a diffrerence...".

Huh...?

There's at least 7 who have disputed the above statement here on bonsaiTALK...and I now join in.

Further, I think there will be many more who will join in, disputing your statement, above.

Pat

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Graydon

Another good topic malik!

As others have pointed out there is no comparison of ground planted trees to slip potting trees. The ground ones will always develop faster and larger.

One thing that has not been pointed out is to place the nursery container in direct contact with the ground and allow (if not encourage) the tree to escape the bottom of the pot and grow freely for a few seasons. It's not as good as full ground planting but it is much more productive than pots. The trick for me is to identify the ones that have escaped somehow so I don't disturb them and damage the roots as they grow thru. After you get the growth you want you can tip the pot (takes some effort and a shovel) and sever the rootage thru the bottom of the pot, remove from the nursery can and do some root work.

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nsmar4211

Graydon,
You have trouble telling apart the escapees? With mine, it's whichever plants have the big big leaves and are growing twice as vigourously as the pot next to them LOL.

You bring up a good point though, I have many plants that I purposely let escape their pots... someone is going to ask, why not plant straight into the ground? Well, one is a ficus and the only rule the homeowner has is "NO FICUS" in the ground (in Florida they get huge and break all over the place during hurricanes and uproot septic tanks and foundations and sidewalks etc). The rest I want to keep as many fine roots near the trunk as possible, not to mention it is a lot easier to pull up a pot than to dig out the whole plant. Less problems with taprooting , the root can't get too too big having to go out that drainhole. About 1/3 of my garden is escapees... found out the hard way that plastic pots shouldn't be used for purposeful escapes, plants will break them and they are hard to untangle out of roots if left too long. My bonsai buddy lets his ficuses (fici?) escape all the time, but then cuts all the roots every year or two. He also doesn't want them to become established in the ground in case he misses a root chop....

Susan and crew

Turtlebo

I don't have much personal experience to speak of, but what I learned in college is that field growing is far faster. There is less of a chance of overwatering or underwatering. And if you are worried about escaping roots and collecting problems you can root prune while still in the ground. This is becoming common prctice in the horticulture industry from what my teacher has told us as they want to be able to easily and successfuly transplant trees by having a compact root ball.

Turtle

Vance Wood

There are up-sides and down-sides to planting both ways. In a large pot you will get trunk development but care must be taken to make sure the excess soil in the pot does not become waterlogged and suffocate the tree. This means you have to be really vigilant and use a good bonsai mix that drains very well. To say that this does not develop a trunk is wrong, any planted situation that allows a lot of vegetative growth will thicken the trunk. In the ground is best because you do not have to watch as carefully about water retention etc.

The down side of growing in the ground, especially with pines, is that the quality of the bark is not as good. The trunk tends to become more smooth and the bark flaking will not appear as quickly. Which is better? You have to decide which will give you what you are looking for.

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anttal63

vance does the bark take long to change once putting a pine back in the pot from the ground?

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BONSAI_OUTLAW

hmmm..thanks V. Wood. I did not know about te quality of bark issue with pines.

Other than the obvious, that field grow trees grow faster, I wonder what other differences there are or could be.