OK, Let's Talk About Roots

bonsaial1

Treebeard wrote:



You are right again Mr Beard. Glenn, and his boss, have a real chance to be a hero here. I would love to see some examples of the stock in the field taken from the best advantage with the camera. I think four or five pics of some of the best examples would go a long way towards letting us know how the plants 'speak for themselves".

As far as the grower as an artist part, being an artist does not necessarily mean that you produce masterpiece bonsai. What I mean is, that the craft you do has had the years behind it to make you an artist at what you do. By sheer repetition, one should be making beautifull tapered trees by the thousands. These trees should have the start of wonderful branching and scars should be healed and compact. Excuse me Stephen, but, Stephentoddpope can read, and I'm sure he has read many bonsai magazines and books on growing trees. Does this give him the ability to go out and start making suitable stock. Sure! He could, but does he have all the skills, and does he really know what good stock is supposed to look like. Does he have the techniques learned to really grow the trees that everyone will want.

As far as the question at the end of the previous post, I was hopeing that you could tell me what attributes this plant that Glenn had posted above has to you. This plant seems to fit the criteria that you had mentioned as far as no branches in the bottom third, nice roots and nebari, and the first second and third branch are there alright.

So my question, hating to put you on the spot, is what do you like about it, and what would you do with it, how long would it take to achieve it, and would you buy it, and for how much?

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no.... really!

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GaryS

Glenn,

That's sounds like the way it should be done.

It ain't easy....is it?

I was talking about the majority of stuff that comes from over seas.

Of course most of that stuff has all it's branches pruned off so you start with a clean slate and a big trunk.....

In a perfect world...huh?

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GaryS

Carl_Bergstrom

Al,

We've gone back and forth on this topic a number of times here, but I think that this current thread is really among the most compelling that we've had. The contrast between the billyclub tridents and the one you purchased is really striking.

This is one of my big concerns with the imported hornbeams that I've seen - they look like the unattractive maples that you've shown. This is also one of the main reasons I am starting with much smaller stock - because I've yet to find a source of nicely tapering material such as yours.

That said, that particular style isn't even my favorite, but I agree that you got a beautiful piece of stock in that style. Personally, I tend to prefer more slender and/or less pine-like shapes for my deciduous trees. Lovely as it is, that sharp taper pretty much forces one to do something pine-like when forming the branches, rather than a naturalistic form with low splitting into upwardly moving branches. But this is just a personal preference.

Glenn, if you've got trees with taper like Al's and roots like the ones I've seen on your trees, you'll have no shortage of buyers!

Best regards,
OMC

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In love with trees

ripsgreentree

Al I have no problem with someone choosing a tree that fit's there tast. In my field I would pick something average for a gift, as it may not servive. When dealing with someone who is expert I allow them to pick there own. If someone is new I may make suggestions. Everything that comes from our nursery will have by Ca. standards above average root and nebari. There are trees that meet or excede your standard of movement and tapor. But there are other standards as Carl (Mr. Crow) has pointed out in a former post.
If you would take the time to understand the work that I do you would know that I value all of the aspects of bonsai. I just believe that you must have a proper foundation to build on.

Glenn

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ripsgreentree

It requires an open hand to give and to recieve.

bonsaial1

Fair enough, Glenn. I guess we'll all just sit and wonder.....

Bonsai-al

BTW, Glenn in the above reply you were talking about someone else buying stock as a gift . I was talking about you. What do "you' look for when buying stock? Do you always choose based on the roots? And, what if the tree you like is not as good in the root department, do you still take the lesser tree with the good roots?

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I been kidding the last seven years.
no.... really!

Treebeard

Agreed. ANYONE who can read a bonsai book is armed with all the artistic information to start out in growing. That is the beauty of having the rules. Ah, yes. this is where the great skill is in growing stock in my view. Knowing how each species will react to the growing process. The techniques used to achieve the end result. If you don't know your techniques inside out, you are going to end up with good intentions and bad stock.

hating it? yeah, right...

I have a liking for informal broom style trees, and flat top brooms, and bonsai with a smooth homogeneous canopy (a la Thomas_J's elms). The pomegranate posted would be readily transformable into one of these styles in a relatively short space of time IMO. Not being familiar with pomegranate habits, I would hesitate to give a time scale, but I would guess-timate within 1 year the look would be pretty good. Within 2 years for the whole process

Yes, I would buy it, I would pay in the region of £80, the same as I paid for this chinese elm. Now this doesn't mean that this stock is not worth more to someone else, or that the figure of £80 reflects favourably on all the time invested in it, it just means that that is what I would be willing to pay for it, what with me being a 'bargain hunter'.

Regards,

TB

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"Do not be hasty, that is my motto"
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christopherguise.co.uk

Treebeard

Hmmm, been musing on the price, to be honest I think I over-bid. Downgrade it to 50 quid. The reason being, for my 80 notes I got a very large elm, which has the potential to be the centrepiece of my collection for the near future, because of it's sheer size and presence.

Here is some fuel for the fire: if the pomegranate shown was a european beech or oak or a hawthorn then the price I would pay would go waay over £80.

More fuel: the elm was marked down to £80... from £180...

Regards,

Chris.

(btw do these pound signs come out on non-UK systems?)

__________________
"Do not be hasty, that is my motto"
-JRR Tolkien, The Two Towers.
-----------------------------------
christopherguise.co.uk

RonMartin(deceased)

Interesting group of thoughts here. Perfect nabari's, great tapers, etc.
Personally I don't think that any one part of the tree is more important than the other. To get a great tree all parts of the whole have to be equally great. None inferior. But then that is just my way of thinking.
But I do have a question. If time was taken to properly field grow, and time is money not only for the businessman but to the customer as well, would you pay the growing rate.
There are many steps to growing good stock. Each step will raise that bottom line price. Labor costs are higher because the skill must be higher.
A perfectly field grown trident would fetch much more than $150. But would you be willing to pay that much.
One cannot buy a Ferrari for the price of a Volkswagen !!!

Ralph

I don't want to buy a ferrari for fear of cracking it up. Do you think 1st year novices should be investing in higher dollar stock to learn on, or should we think somewhat more economical?

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Bonsai trees burst buds anew
Spring is upon us!


-Paul S.