OK, Let's Talk About Roots

bonsaial1

Good, Now were talkin about bonsai. No better person to get the ball rolling with then talkin about Rip's passion, ROOTS. I feel that Glenn will tell me, and the forum, his point of view, and we can all learn from both sides of the fence.

So... Let me attack thi(poor choice of words) s from a different perspective. In earlier posts, Glenn had mentioned his frustration on not finding plants with good roots. He had bought many plants in the past and they did not hold up the rigors of his techniques. He felt, "There must be another way", and so decided to build plants that had the best possible foundation.

That is a very noble task. Who would not want to have the best roots possible on the stock they buy.
BUT.... let me go further.... at some time we can see that Glenn bought his stock from a nursery, a bonsai nursery, (at least to me he has mentioned Muranaka's), local plant specialty nurserys, mass merchandiser's, etc. Now at some point early in Glenn's life, Glenn had to make a dicision on how he would choose the plant he would take home to work on.

Would it be reasonable to summise that he would pick the best attributes of the plants on hand? If one has had many failures in the roots systems of the plants that he was getting from the nursery's, at some point you have to resolve yourself to the fact that you are going to buy a plant that will have to have its roots worked over for some period of time. So.. would it be safe to say that one might concentrate on getting the best possible above ground tree as possible?

In the reverse, Glenn is making trees with the best possible roots systems. These root systems are flat, shallow, compact, and healthy. But why stop there? Why not make the top of the tree the best possible too. Why not make the whole package?

I'll tell you why!

Because to grow good field stock you have to be more than just a good horticulturest. You have to be a bonsai artist. The grower has to have the fundamental knowledge of taper, perspective, ratio's, branch placement, 's' curves, negative space, visual speed, and proportion. The grower has to have the knowledge of how to make an artistic tree from less than perfect stock if they are to ever prune bonsai field stock for retail sell.

Of course, is this a must? Heck no! They can grow stock with club trunks, no taper, knobs, reverse taper, crappy branches, terrible pruning scars, no apex, and ugly chop's. Of course then they would be just like all the other growers out there with only one part of the package.
( this later part of the post is not a slam to Glenn in any way, he has invited me out lots of times and I have not recently seen the fields, and am speaking of growers in general.)

BTW, how many of you will be buying the best roots possible when you pick your twenty dollar plant for the " best bonsai under twenty bucks" contest?

Al

__________________
Olympic Gold Medals:
China-45
USA-27
Great Britain-17

Total medal leader: USA with 87
The winningest Olympian of all time, USA's Michael Phelps with 8 gold medals
Medals stolen from US due to skewed judging-2

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ripsgreentree

Well Al I don't quite know what to say. It seems that you know my mind better than I do. Glenn this and Glenn that.

GaryS; The following is the work that we do on just some of the species of trees that we grow.
J-Black pine Candle pruned in march and pruned for shape in augest. Dug up and root pruned every two years.
Pomigranate Twisted, double flowering pink and dwarf. Dug up root pruned and cut for shape anually.
Saju, Catlin, Neray, Cedar, cork barked and drake elms. Dug up root pruned and cut anually.
Tridents are cut to the trunk line in the early spring and the heavy growth taken out of them in the late summer. Dug every two years and root pruned.
Apricot, Peach, and Plum are top pruned twice a year and root pruned every year on young material and every two years on older material.
Privit is top cut as necessary and root pruned every three years.
Celtis is top pruned as necessary and root pruned every two years.
I also deal with five diffrent cultivars of juniper but because of there fibrous root structure they can be allowed to stay undesturbed for four years but they must be top cut ever year.
There are Cork oak live oak and bald cypress and montizuma cypress And much more.
Al it's been almost three years ago that you spent 30 minets looking around the nursery, you did not look closely at anything.You have had a standing invitation to come out and work on trees to get a real feel for what we are doing but as you say you are to busy. Al come out and get your fingers dirty I promis you will like what you see and touch.

Glenn

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ripsgreentree

It requires an open hand to give and to recieve.

Treebeard

Mmm, I disagree on that. I wouldn't think you need to be an artist to be able to read the bonsai rulebook (although I admit it helps...).
Any mass grower just needs to follow the guidelines; no branches in lower 3rd, first branch left, 2nd right, 3rd back; cut any eye-pokers; cut any crossers etc., etc. Then it is up to the
buyer to refine things.

BTW If I can find a suitable potensai for the contest, yes, roots will be low on the list of required features, although good roots will be a plus.

Also If I could suggest Rips, the 'up the skirt' style shot of the roots is not as helpful to the potential buyer as a clear close shot of the nebari from above.

Regards,

Chris.

__________________
"Do not be hasty, that is my motto"
-JRR Tolkien, The Two Towers.
-----------------------------------
christopherguise.co.uk

ripsgreentree

Thanks for the suggestion, I will try to create a better camera angle that will give you what you want. I am really still learning how to take a decent picture and so far not doing to well. Just another aspect of bonsai that I am trying to learn.
Would a shot of the tree like this be a better help to you.
Again Thanks


Glenn

Attached Images

pomigranate 127.jpg (15.2 KB, 155 views)

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ripsgreentree

It requires an open hand to give and to recieve.

Treebeard

Glenn, yes that is a MUCH better angle, but as you have said elsewhere, the lighting is not the best... getting there though

Regards,

Chris.

__________________
"Do not be hasty, that is my motto"
-JRR Tolkien, The Two Towers.
-----------------------------------
christopherguise.co.uk

ripsgreentree

I have worked out a new back drop and some flood lights so I am hoping to chase some of the shadows away in todays pictures.

Glenn

__________________
ripsgreentree

It requires an open hand to give and to recieve.

bonsaial1

Glenn, I use that sequence of events to illustrate the fact that at some time in the past, You to, had to choose stock from a nursery. I would further summize that you still do. Except now you have the ability to choose the stock from the grounds that you grow stock on.

If you were to walk out in your field today, and pick a plant to work on and present as a gift this Christmas for someone, would you pick the tree in the field with the best roots, or the tree with the most potential as looking like a bonsai by Christmas?

This is pretty much a simple question, that should be answered fairly simply.

Al

__________________
Olympic Gold Medals:
China-45
USA-27
Great Britain-17

Total medal leader: USA with 87
The winningest Olympian of all time, USA's Michael Phelps with 8 gold medals
Medals stolen from US due to skewed judging-2

Chadster

First off, as a newbie... all of the info. and remarks posted are absolutley wonderful. Everytime I come here I learn something. I would like to add my 2 cents if I may...
Al all has wonderful points. Especially with the pics and the info illustrates excellently, so someone like myself understands. When I go to the Mammoth Sale next weekend, I feel like I will be a more educated buyer as a result of having read and learned from Al's post. Thanks Al, my future aquisitions will be better bonsai because of it.
As far as for the material that Glenn is growing I have personally seen a few peices he's brought to some of the club workshops. Both Kenji Miyata and Ted Matson were both pleasantly suprised and were excited about the material Glenn and company are growing.

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Psalms-91

bonsaial1

Treebeard, you are right, you could be a grower and disagree with that, and you would be growing baseball batts just like all the other grower's.

Glenn, has said numerous times that he grows plants, it's up to the artist to make something of it. For the artist, there still has to be something to work with. Most artists are just not going to waste their time on poor field grown stock. There is just to much yamadori that is poor enough, but with enough character to make it worth their while.

Treebeard, I challange you to give me all the redeaming features of the pomagranite posted above, north of the nebari? So far it has met the qualifications you had set forth.

Al

__________________
Olympic Gold Medals:
China-45
USA-27
Great Britain-17

Total medal leader: USA with 87
The winningest Olympian of all time, USA's Michael Phelps with 8 gold medals
Medals stolen from US due to skewed judging-2