OK, Let's Talk About Roots

bonsaial1

I offer this to mull around.

While bonsai is being pushed with ever more exuberance to an art form, the basic outlines for beauty are obvious. Everyone knows when they see a tree that sends that heart reeling.

The question is just how good does a root system have to be to make the difference in the initial view. I'm not being naive here, I know the importance of nebari on a plant, but just what are the guidelines for the roots beneath the soil.

While the question of weather or not a plant has feelings has had the dickens beat out of it here and on other forums, I can safely say that the plant does not know weather it has a beautiful root system or an ugly root system.

The main factor is, Does it have a healthy root system?

1. Does a shallow well formed root system function better than a knarled root system?

2. Does a well executed nebari help with nutrient transfer to the plant?

3. Will an ugly, but healthy root system do the same thing?

4. Will the plant function just as well if the ugly knarled, but healthy root sytem is buried beneath the soil?

And, the answer is: I don't know. A plant has never told me. I have had a plant show me though! When the root system goes south, the plant is not long for this world.

The best root system in the world will drown from overwatering just like a poor one. The best root system will cook if not watered properly, and they will burn just like the rest from over use of harsh chemicals.

The healthy root system may be able do heal itself in the event there is time, while the poor system will wither and die.

Glenn had talked in another thread about the trident maple that I bought from Kim's. While it is true that I mentioned to him that I would like to graft on some seedlings next year, it is not due to the fact that the roots are bad. This is probably the best root structure that I have ever seen on a plant. The roots were fabulous. The reason I wish to do the grafting is purely for asthetics. To improve the overall appearance of the tree. If I did nothing to the plant it would still function as well, and respond favorably to any technique applied to it. The grafting of more roots on a place on the trunk are not going to make that much differance in the overall performance of the plant in it's abbility to function. It would be like asking a genie for another eye placed between the two you already have, are three really better?

The big deal to me is, while I am sure that every plant that I looked at that day had a simular root system on them. I am sure that they were developed by the same grower. Now given that I looked thru at least 200 tridents that day, what do you think was the greatest determining factor in my purchase?


For me anyway, Money was no object that day. There were hundreds of plants to choose from. This was a gold mine for a bonsai enthusiast. There were trees that would make a fine addition to anyone's collection. The only problem was the taper issue. I came loaded for bear, and I can't find a decent plant to buy. The image of the great masterpiece tree had to be here, but where? Trust me, roots never entered my mind here! These plants lacked the proper taper to make them
really suitable as bonsai, and I was looking for the best overall plant possible. Oh, they were the right size and from a distance they look good, but on close examination it is apparent that they have been field grown and chopped and chopped till they were of a size to dig. The internodal structure was long and streched looking. Not as compact as would be on a naturally stunted plant.

My final thought, if the artistry that exists beneath the soil is not apparent above the soil, what do you have? Great looking roots on an ugly tree. The differance is roots vs. nebari. One has to be perfect, the other as long as their healthy, whats the differance?

Eager to hear the rebuttals,
Bonsai-al

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bonsaial1

I felt the overwhelming need to illustrate my point of view.

I downloaded the full size pics on my hard drive, then took selective samples of some of the trees in the photos of the hornbeams and tridents at Kim's.

Let me make a point here. I am in no way bashing these plants. I think they represent many hard hours of labor and dilligent bonsai techniques to get the plants to the point they are now. I am showing these here to further illustrate my personal point of view of roots versus tree.

The first photo is one of the hornbeams in the photo. It is obvious the plant lacks the taper to make it really suitable as bonsai. When compared to the plant I bought, selling this tree at the same price is almost robbery.

Attached Images

hornbeam1.jpg (12.5 KB, 288 views)

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bonsaial1

In fact this hornbeam has a pretty decent nebari. The roots are even, and the flare is equal on both sides. If the plant had better taper this would have been an exceptional buy at 140.00. But these two plants would make better baseball bats.

note: all the plants of this size were in the 140.00 range, tridents and hornbeams, and elms. There were not many elms, and I did not take any pics of them. Lets just say I did not want to waste your time.

Attached Images

hornbeam2.jpg (8.9 KB, 267 views)

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bonsaial1

This is one of the tridents from that photo in the greenhouse. My plant came from this group. There was another group of more trees, but they were worse than these, IMHO.

The tree in the back has a pretty good flare at the base, but lacks any interest in the trunk or the start of branching.

The tree in the foreground is terrible at the base, and the trunk goes off at a weird angle making this only suitable for a layering or chop to start over. If I got to do all that, why buy 140.00 material. I may as well start with 5 gallon nursery material, it will take as much time.

Attached Images

trident1.jpg (16.9 KB, 270 views)

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bonsaial1

I put those two photo's side by side for comparison. Now we know or at least can take for granted that these trees will have the same healthy root systems that I found on my tree. Which tree do you think will sell faster.

What I don't understand is why do they not make all the trees come from the field like the one I bought. Why would some have great taper and some have no taper? Why would you even make a tree with no taper?

So... my point is simple. Whats underneath should be good and healthy, but if the tree on top is lousy, why would anyone buy it no matter how good the roots are?

Afterall Bonsai is about, "a tree in a pot" not roots in a pot!

Bonsai-al

Attached Images

tridents on the block.jpg (30.2 KB, 269 views)

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Jay

Al, thank you once again..again.

After reading this thread over, and yes it is worth re-reading, I see what you mean. There is no doubt that if I was looking to spend $140.00 and saw those trees, I would have bought one.. perhaps one that was, well not as good as it should be. After reading and seeing your points I realize the importance of REALLY looking at the tree in front of me.

As a person learning my craft, I need to be shown that there are good trees and thre are really good trees .... and.... there are trees that are not worth the money. Sure they could be made into a good tree, but it would take a lot more time and a lot more effort than the tree is worth (purchase price). Also, just because a tree comes with a higher price does not mean it is a better tree.

J

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Tony

Al,

I think all three are important. I would list them in this order.

1:A healthy root system.

2: An intresting trunk with taper.

3: Good nebari and trunk base.

A good healthy root system is a must if you want to get it home alive and expect it to live through the next course of events. I doubt that would be a problem for any of these trees since they look like they've been growing in pots with good soil for a while.

An interesting trunk with taper because this is the essence of the tree. That's usually the feature of the tree that catches my eye first. It's also the most difficult and time consuming to correct.

A nice evenly spaced nebari that creates a flare at the base of the trunk. This is important too, and if it's not there it can take as long to correct as the trunk. The difference is, and the reason I listed this third, is that you can have a nice looking bonsai while improving the nebari. Even if you have to graft roots. That can be done with the tree in bonsai form. On the other hand, if you had to build movement and taper in the trunk, well, you'll have a tree tree with a chopped trunk or sacrifice branches but not a bonsai.

By the way, did you get a chance to talk with Kim about the trunks. It seems to me that a little chopping in the right places early on would have solved these problems.

Tony

bonsaial1

Hi Tony, The short of it was, Kim was not there. He was in Korea on another buying trip. I am sure that he is just a jobber who sells retail. I think the bonsai trade is much like the retail aquarium trade. The plants and fish seem to come from nations where labor is pennys on the dollar, and most of the fields are probably run by "families" much like the families of Chicago.

I have been to conventions before and asked about a certain tree with the attributes I want. I have been taken around the floor to half a dozen booths and shown stock at their booths. Later after carefull watching, I notice the guy is working all the booths. They just give them another family name, and have 6 or 7 booths at one convention. I see this most when I go the the shohin convention. It is here in Calif. every other year. It will be in Santa Nella next Feb.

Al

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ripsgreentree

The first thing that I want to make clear is that All aspects of a great bonsai are very important.
1. It is very importiant for a tree to have an evenly distributed well ramified root system that is close to the trunk. It is importiant for the health of the tree, for the develipment of the nebari and will allow you to work with a much wider varity of pots.
2. Nebari is the serface roots that can be seen on the top of the soil, this is very important because it strengthens the tree and gives the tree a since of great stability. Good nebari will spread the base of your tree and start your trunk line and tapor.
3. Trunk will set your style, formal (straight) informal (curved) cascaid and so on.
4. Branch placement and ramification finishes the tree and supplies the feeling, beauty and semitry that is always presant in great bonsai.

To teach or suggest that one aspect is more or less valuable than another will trap the new bonsai artest into working for years on a piece of material that will eventually be a disipointment.
By its very nature the art of Bonsai is a broad brush which encoumpases many species of plants and styles.
It is my openion that to be a good bonsai artest a person needs to be well versed in all of the aspects of bonsai from the tip's of the roots to the new bud's at the top of the tree.

Glenn

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