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17-Feb-2003
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#11 | |
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Bonsai nare-do-well
 
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Quote:
Fred Sorry it took me so long to get back to the question you asked way back at the beginning of this thread. It has been a busy last few days. Fortunately when I first became interested in bonsai there was an experienced bonsai instructor just down the road from where I lived. I took several lessons from him and did learn, at least the rudiments on styling, before I had started to collect material from the wild. This caused me to be a bit selective before I put that shovel to work. I never collected just for the sake of collecting. Every tree I took from the ground had a plan in mind for it before I broke my back getting the darn thing out. Some times the plan did not work out. Mistakes were indeed made. But when I realized that I had made a mistake I no longer kept the tree. I never saw the advantage on trying to make a mistake work. So to answer your question did some of the random material that I collected ever turn out to have potential that only came out later on. No. But then I never saw the advantage in random collecting ( I am too lazy to do that anyway.) And as soon as I realized that a piece of material I was working on did not fit my plan for it I abandoned that material. Hope that answers your question |
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Sponsor Message
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Nursery Stock |
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Forum Sponsor
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19-Feb-2003
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#12 |
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Carrier of Bonsai Fever
 Join Date: Oct-2001
Location: So-Cal, US of A
Country: America The Beautiful
USDA Zone: Zone 9-10
Posts: 1,833
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Great Repartee'
Rip and Al,
You guys never cease to give me a laugh out loud. I love the caption " CONFRONTATION" Give some thought to changing you user names to "itchy" and "scratchy".
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Keep growing,---'Nut Lethal Use of Farce |
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20-Feb-2003
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#14 |
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BonsaiTalk Master B.S.er
Join Date: Jun-2002
Location: Richardson, Texas
Country: God Bless America
USDA Zone: 8
Posts: 1,285
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Hey Ron, you posted a topic near and dear to the hearts of Rips and Al. That is good stock, however, they are like the Miller lite commercial when it comes to quantifying the most important elements of good stock.
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Emerging from winter slumber Bonsai trees burst buds anew Spring is upon us! -Paul S. |
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20-Feb-2003
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#15 |
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bonsaiTALK Master Chief
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Pose a question
Ron:
Here is the heart of our continuing confrontation. Would you as an advanced bonsai artest or teacher, instruct a newbie to buy a cheep tree that has a great posibility for a good trunk and tapor and limb structure. Saying don't bother about the root ball you can spend years fixing it. It dosen't matter anyway it is under the soil....Al's opinion. Bonsai artest. OR: Spend a little more and buy stock that has been trained for the bonsai container with correct root structure, good nebari,trunk and tapor, you create the limb structure crown and ramification.....Glenn's opinion. Field grower Glenn
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ripsgreentree It requires an open hand to give and to recieve. |
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20-Feb-2003
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#16 | |
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Bonsai nare-do-well
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Re: Pose a question
Quote:
First let me say I am a teacher of bonsai, no one has ever called me an artist. I am not about to get into the middle of a feud but the question does deserve an answer. I teach my students how to select good stock in the beginning. I spend a lot of time in this area. A LOT OF TIME. The foundation of a bonsai is made in the initial selection of the material to use. Garbage will get you , well, garbage. All parts of the initial stock are equally important. Any item can be a cause for rejection. Price is not really a consideration. I have found both cheap and expensive plants can bring forth a surprising find. Just as long as one knows what they are looking for. If a tree has a weak area then the educated can find a way to improve on the weak area. It may take a bit of time. But in most cases it does not take years but months. Sometimes even a weak area can be worked into the final design. But I must say that a good grower of bonsai stock must look to all aspects of the tree. If he only works on the roots then the rest of the tree suffers. If he only works on the trunk taper then the tree suffers. Lots of etc.'s here A good grower looks at the whole product. Each area gets special attention. To do otherwise is not a smart thing to do. Now as to the artistic portion of the equation. Here I will only repeat what one of the great American bonsai artists has said to me many times. There are no bad trees. There are only good and bad bonsai artists. A sows ear can, indeed, be turned into a silk purse. One just needs to know how to get around the faults of the tree. Now the teacher in me screams "learn what to look for before you open that wallet" Once the buyer does this the growers will get educated pretty fast !!! I will no go and hide in the corner |
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21-Feb-2003
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#18 |
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SPGD Founder/Bonsaiist
Join Date: Feb-2003
Location: Orange
Country: USA
Posts: 175
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I've only been in Bonsai for about a week now, but I'm already looking at structures of trees, sizes of leaves, flowers, and fruit, and all aspects of them just to see if they would make good bonsai.
Basically I've just started out with a Juniper and I've taken some clippings that I'm going to try and propagate. When looking for things in my own yard to take clippings from, I thought about the size of leaves, look of the trunk, the way the tree naturally grew, color of the leaves, roots, and as many aspects as I could think of. The two clippings that resulted from 1/3 of our yard were one with leaves that were a little bit bigger than they should be, but the trunk of the large tree had a very wonderful color and texture, and the leaves were of beautiful color and shape! The full grown shrub's trunk grew relatively straight, but the way it split higher up was so unsymmetrical that with some training, it would make a much better informal upright. The other clipping had no leaves on it, as it is winter right now, so I do not know about the leaves, but the trunk mesmerized me. The trunk was very rough and of a brownish red color. The clipping I took from that, if it keeps growing similar to the way it is growing now (and if I do some training to encourage that growth), will make a very nice windswept or slant bonsai. So although I have been in this for an extremely short time, I'm trying to use every bit of insight I have to try and see the finished tree.
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People don't like me. |
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21-Feb-2003
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#19 | |
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Carrier of Bonsai Fever
Join Date: Oct-2001
Location: So-Cal, US of A
Country: America The Beautiful
USDA Zone: Zone 9-10
Posts: 1,833
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Quote:
Let's just say the boys have a "history".
__________________
Keep growing,---'Nut Lethal Use of Farce |
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22-Feb-2003
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#20 |
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Bonsai Doer
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Glenn, You got cahones, I'll give you that. You posed a two questioned scenario to another forum member, (who I might add at least responded to you questions) yet you have not even answered one of mine. On this post, or the other one about the tree at the workshop and the new fronts with Ted Matson. Whats up with that?
Further more I have never advocated that someone buy "cheap stock" I have said that I look for bargains at every corner though, as have countless others on this forum, Jay, Tony, Jose to name a few. I have never said that someone should forget the root ball either. I can only speak for myself, and my posts are always written from 'my' point of view, as are yours. Whether someone holds this as gospal is there business. I think everyone here understands where we each stand on the root trunkline issue. It is well documented here. If you wish to debate the subject, then please offer up something that reinforces your objective. Show me the pics of the trees that I would be proud to own. Show them to the forum so that we may all enjoy the fruits of your labor. Give us a ball park figure on what one would expect to pay for this expertise. I know that you somehow have a problem with this, but citing past reasons is just a cop out in my opinion. Marginal material at the right price may be a good deal, but really good stuff at prices that are astonomical will go along way in establishing what you are trying to accomplish in the bonsai world. I have many trees at home. Some are good, some are wonderful, and some are just training stock. Some are even less than training stock. While the trident that I put the new roots on is not a spectacular tree, it has some features that will permitt me to layer off some good trees in the future. While my personel gallery is small, it does reflect some of the best work I have done. This is my opinion only, and may not stack up to even some on this forum much less the bonsai world at large. The thing is, that trident is not on my gallery. It is not there for a reason. I don't think it reflects a good bonsai. I don't think it even reflects"bonsai" period. My point is, your gallery is full of trees that in my opinion, you feel reflect good bonsai. I rationalize this by the fact that Matt wanted this area to be museum. At least that was the verbage when he initinally set it up. I did not post things there for a long time due to the fact that I did not want to embarrass myself with trees that did not reflect the image that I portray on the forum. Some of that stock has come around with subsequent repots. If I'm going to argue with people about bonsai asthetics, what you should look for in selecting stock,and basic techniques, then my gallery should also reflect what I am capable of doing with a tree. Afterall Bonsai is about alot more than making sure 12,000 trees have good roots. In fact, I'm not sure thats what bonsai is about at all, food for thought. Bonsai-al
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I been kidding the last seven years. no.... really! Last edited by bonsaial1 : 22-Feb-2003 at 05:36 PM. |
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