North American Plant study group?

vtbonsaichief

Ah, but not so! How many tree species reide in canada? You'd venture from Canadas large size that it must have tons of special diveristy. Canad has I think seven zones, from seven to zero. But really, canada is mostly boreal sruce/fir forest. Alot of spruce and fir. Canada is bigger than the US, but it doesn't have the species diversity that we have. Largely because it's colder.

The same thing can be applied to India and Australia. They maybe smaller, and they may have less climactic zones, but they are on the whole much warmer, and warmer climate usually corelates to larger species diversity.

South america is very rich in species. Brazil alone must have hundreds of thousands of plant species alone. While Brazil is larger than the US, that does not mean that it's size makes it home for more species; it's climate and environs do.

Or some such. Yeah. I do have a clue on this. When you're bored and tree obsessed, the whole world is game.

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"I am Treeman, Master of the universe!"

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rockm

"The reason you don't find capsulized info like the sites you have posted is that North America is a vast place with a huge variety of climate zones and native species. A single web page can't cover it."

Originally, I was talking North America--Canada, U.S., Mexico. Combined those countries cover vastly geographic ranges--including the species rich warmer zones and colder zones that neither Australia nor India have (or at least have in any great abundance).

Can you put species numbers to each country to back up what you're saying?

vtbonsaichief

HA Ho! I'm doing just that!

Well, not really. See, thats the real problem: nodody really knows. Most of the taxonomy texts I can find for species censuses(cenci? what the plural?) are all rather....superficial. it's like the authors are writing them for the general audience, and leave out many lesser known species. For instance, upi here in the Adirondacks there are two small birch species, Betula pumila, and B. glabrescens, that are not listed in any texts I've found treating the areas flora.

I guess thats not really an answer for you though. To put things mildly, collecting lesser known species is a side hobby for me. Metaphorical collection, not actual collection. Like jokes? You know?

And'm not trying to be pugnacious if thats how I'm coming off. Hope your not either.

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"I am Treeman, Master of the universe!"

rockm

'And'm not trying to be pugnacious if thats how I'm coming off. Hope your not either."

Of course not. I gave up on searching for numbers on this one. It was pretty frustrating. Thought I'd see what you could come up with Let's just say there's a heck of alot of trees in Australia, India and North America

I am also a fan of obscure species and subspecies for bonsai. I have a collected quercus virginiana "fusiformis" as bonsai. It's the upland form of southern live oak and isn't mentioned much in tree books, much less used as bonsai material .

ALDEVAUX

The point I was trying to make is that a tree species that grows in climatic zone 4, even if you can also find the same species in another zone will not have the same genotype and will not react the same way when grown in in a different climatic condition.
For example, the red maple (Acer rubrum) that grows naturally in zone 4 will not react the same way as regards to growth rate, pinching, backbudding, pH tolerance etc. As the same species that grows naturally in a different or warmer zone.
Of course, most of the trees you have listed can be found in many different zones, but because of complete different climatic conditions you get between certain zones (day length, temperature extremes,summer and winter length etc.) they will be genetically different and will not grow the same way especially when styled as bonsai.
Another good example would be a Ficus tree which can successfully grown in zone 4, outside during the summer, can never be styled in such a successful way as those styled in the tropics or asian climates where they grow naturally to become world class bonsai.
Sufficient genetic studies have been carried out on plants to show that the genetic diversity within plant species is extremely great as it can be observed by the large differences in many morphological ànd anatomical traits between the same species growing under different conditions. However also, within species, a great deal of genetic variation is present in nature or has been created by breeders. With the development of molecular genetics, these outstanding variations have now also be studied at the molecular level.
This has helped to our much better understanding of the processes underlying plant growth and development and the interaction of plants with their physiological and normal environments. Many of these traits show quantitative variation which is due to their polygenic nature and large environmental effects on trait expression. So, in specific growing zones, there is a significant amount of genetic variation present to prove that they adapt very much to specific environments.

Vance Wood

Sorry about that I left the Birches out of my list, they too make great bonsai except they are not long lived. There are also some native Crab Apples that are usefull and native Azaleas.

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The only finished bonsai is a dead one; me 1992 MABA Des Moines Iowa

Vance Wood

I would love to try that particular Oak. A lot of trees are not used because so many in the States are so embroiled in obtaining exotic species that they over-look the native stuff. Again let me state, if it is not available in the nursery trade a tree has limited distribution, generally in the area where it is native.

__________________
The only finished bonsai is a dead one; me 1992 MABA Des Moines Iowa

Vance Wood

You might want to talk to people like Dustin Mann, and Jerry Miselik, both of these gentlemen produce wonderful, and I would say, world class Ficus bonsai. Jerry used to live here in Michigan, Dustin Mann still lives here in Michigan but Jerry has moved to Wyoming or Montana I believe. You should be careful not to paint with too broad a brush.

__________________
The only finished bonsai is a dead one; me 1992 MABA Des Moines Iowa

rockm

"Another good example would be a Ficus tree which can successfully grown in zone 4, outside during the summer, can never be styled in such a successful way as those styled in the tropics or asian climates where they grow naturally to become world class bonsai."

Not really accurate. As mentioned, Jerry Meislik grows spectacular tropical ficus bonsai in Montana.

http://www.bonsaihunk.8m.com/

Species native to southern areas of the U.S. can be successfully grown in a wide variety of place. Bald cypress native to La. can be planted in Northern Illinois and grow to a ripe old age. Live oak from Texas can be planted in Va. and get big (without the usual mistletoe and Spanish moss, though). There is an old one on the grounds of the National Arboretum in D.C.

I do agree the same species in different climate zones can have wildly different characteristics. Willow oak in East Texas is definitely not the same tree species I can collect here. I noted that on my Christmas visit there. The Willow oak (quercus phellos) in Tex. looks alot like live oak with shallowly lobed lance shaped leaves still on the trees in late December. The quercus phellos here in Va. has thinner lance shaped leaves that dropped long ago. I suspect the species interbreeds to some extent in Tex with other native oaks.

Anyway, I think this is highly variable, depending on species, locality and local genetic material of the plant.

Vance, if you're interested in live oak "fusiformis" ask a Texan bonsaiists to nab a one to ten gallon one from a local nursery someplace like Dallas or Austin. They are the predominant live oak sold for landscape in those places. I got a small, 1/2" diameter gallon live oak two summers ago, chopped it top and bottom and am in the process of growing in out. I wanted to see if a landscape tree was adaptable to this treatment. It is.

I've had a big collected oak from near Austin for years. It is my favorite tree. I want more