Newbie with questions

johnfosteruk

Hi, everyone, i've been looking around your site for a while now, but i've only just registered.
Reason being, after all the time studying, saying I would buy from a proper supplier, deciding what species to have, reading up etc. I gave in to temptation today. I was at the garden centre, I saw this chap looking somewhat disheveled and my heart sank. So I bought him.

My first question is, can anyone identify him for me the mug in the first pic is for scale (if the pics aren't good enough, I'll take some better ones - I did these on my phone ) My little amount of knowledge tells me Chinese Elm, am I right?

Second, I think he's in a bad state, and obviously would like to do some good work here. The leaves are dry and shrivelling in places, and I can make a lot of them fall of just by looking at them . A few are starting to yellow slightly.
I've not looked at the rootball yet, but the tree is very stable so i'm guessing its a good size - should I be pruning the root right now or are there more immediate problems.
There's a lot of exposed root (that's ok with chinese elms right?)
My main concern is the leaves as stated. The soil was very dry when I got it, I put a toothpick right in and it came out dry as a bone. So I've given a good watering (once, till seeping out the bottom, then again 20 odd minutes later)
I haven't decided where to site him yet, obviously i'll wait till I know for sure what it is.

Is this just a thirsty tree, or do I have more serious problems?
I hope you're still reading and can help me identify this one, I think I have an idea what needs doing but any other comments/tips would be useful.

Thanks guys
JF

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pootsie

Yup, that there is a chinese elm

They are very tough, and can generally bounce back from tough conditions like underwatering, overwatering, or poorly focused photos

It would help in the advice department if you update your profile so we can tell where you live. In general, though, chinese elms prefer outdoor living. It can take full sun, but if it's in a weak state partial shade might be better until you are sure it is stable.

Careful over-watering! They should get a bit dry between h2o-ings, though not bone-dry.

pootsie

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Joanie

John, a little info would be good...you are in the UK, right? You can go to the "User CP" and fill in your location and zones for people to reference when helping you.

Now, looks like you have him inside. Probably outside would be better. In dappled shade, which is always acceptable when a tree is stressed. Don't water again until his soil is dry for the first inch or so, and make sure that the drainage holes are clear in the pot (not blocked with debris)

It probably is a Chinese Elm, sure looks like it, but others may have a better idea. If so, they are pretty tough, and keeping it in dappled shade and not too wet should allow it to come back.

Good luck, and welcome to the Grand Obsession!
Joanie

Joanie

Sorry, Pootsie, you and I must have been typing at the same time!!

Joanie

johnfosteruk

thanks for the replies guys. Quite happy i've done something right so far (ID)
Sorry about the profile thing, Doh. Its all updated now.
I only had him indoors whilst I looked up some photos for comparison/ID.
I've already cleaned out the drainage holes, nicely freeflowing.
I'll make sure to keep an eye on the moisture levels from here on.
Any more comments will be more than welcome.
Cheers
JF

Joanie

Good! Very good! You get a cookie!!

Seriously, make sure that you don't keep the little dish under the pot also....just wanted to mention it.

Keep a good eye on him so that if he gets any spider mites, etc, you can take care of it right away. Look for little webs...put a piece of white paper underneath and tap the branch...if you see little "cayenne pepper" dots then you have mites. The tree is sick and compromised and can fall prey to various predators. But not for long, probably! These elms are tough.

Joanie

jloeschner

The general consenus is that this is a Chinese elm, and I have to agree. Like everyone else, I have to say that these trees are especially tough. For example, about a month and a half ago, during my "too busy to post" spell, I came home from work one night and noticed an empty space on my table where my elm usually sat. I immediately rushed over to try and figure out what happened...thinking that the tree had been stolen. To my relief and dismay, the tree was still there...only now it was on the ground, several feet away. I am not sure if a person or a critter was responsible for its relocation, but it had apparently had a rough move. It was lying on its side, out of its pot, which was, amazingly, still whole. What was left of the soil on the roots was bone-dry. I had no idea how long it had been there like that, since I did not have time that morning to check my trees before rushing off to work, however I was pretty sure it was a goner, since the temps had reached 100 degrees that day. What was left of the leaves were already starting to get crispy, and so, it was with a heavy heart that I picked it up, took it inside, and repotted it. I then put the tree back outside, in a shaded area, watered it thoroughly, and began the long wait.

Now, please keep in mind that this tree had been in recovery from a bout of blackspot this past spring, and was not the healthiest tree in the world. However, it managed to recover. It still looks scraggly and sparse, but it has recently began pushing new growth. Of course, I am dreading the winter, but I think that it will bounce back nicely next spring.

My point is that these trees are very tough. They can survive the steep learning curve of a person learning how to properly care for it, and will then give the person many years of enjoyment. The advice that you have received from the guys (and gals!) here will help you on that journey.

Regards,
John

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johnfosteruk

Thanks alot everyone, Joanie - I did the mite test, all is well.
So the concensus is leave him be, keep him not too wet, but not too dry and see how he comes on.
As for form, as you might be able to tell from the full tree pic, there's a couple of forward and downward pointing branches on the left hand side that displease me
The general shape I think is pretty nice though, I can envisage a pretty nice canopy later on.
The taper isn't bad IMO, and I love the bark, it really is very interesting/detailed and it does help with the maturity illusion.
The nebari IMO is a bloody mess so I'd like to sort that out too, and there's some nice ramification, but the general branch/twig situation is a bit of a tangled mess.
So, this is what I can see needs doing:-

Possible lowering of tree into pot (pot is quite deep so there should be quite a lot of rootball to loose)
Major pruning to remove forward/downward pointers and to create a good branch/twig structure
repotting?

So what's my plan? Do I wait till the start of spring and do it all in a relatively short period so as to not prolong stress? Is there anything you would do now?

Or do I just trunk chop and start again?

Any advice appreciated
Cheers
JF

jloeschner

Since this is your first tree, I would recommend not doing anything to it just yet. You should learn how to keep it alive and healthy, first. If it is still alive next spring, chop, cut, and root prune to your hearts delight. As stated above, these trees can take a lot of abuse...but even they are not invincible. So, it is better to learn what they like (outside situation, plenty of water, etc...) before doing things to them that they won't like (chopping, root pruning, etc).

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