New Poll: women only

John Dixon

Joanie,

Let me start off by saying I'm fine with this "women only" poll, but I would like to point out something. Do not take this personally as that is not the intent.

The basic premise of bonsai has no gender specific intent. In reading the questions I am puzzled which could not be answered by a man as easily as a woman. Now having said that, would women on this site tolerate threads that eliminated the importance of their gender's response?

My point here is this:

Men have had to accept the fact that our gender was indeed responsible for unfair bias towards the other sex. What I see happening, at least in the U.S., is a faction of women who don't really want equal rights, they want retribution and reparation. While I respect your intent, and have no anger towards this thread, I do want to illustrate how such differences come about.

A recent trend in certain religions has created an environment where women are asked to serve as deacons for the church. This was a long established role of men only. Some will argue that it is mandated in scripture. For the purpose of my remarks, that is irrelevant. What is relevant is that I was present when a women deacon who was completing her tenure and entering a required time of absence on the board of deacons brought up a question about prospective replacements. Her only concern? Were there any females being considered.

I thought about that for quite a while. My determination of that situation was that she was way out of line. What she said was in direct conflict with what most women - if my read is right - want. That is equality. She seemed wholly dedicated to maintaining a female on the board. My thoughts were what ever happened to picking the best person? Gender, race, or any other demographic is meaningless to me, and I ended up feeling like I just got slapped in the face. It really changed my opinion on when to speak up and when to shut up. Men should NOT tolerate that kind of attitude any more than women should accept the stereotypically chauvinistic (sp?) male. When women overstep that line, it makes men resentful. Our feelings can be hurt too, we just seem more prone to immediately counter-attack.

I don't see bonsai and bonsai clubs/groups as anything that should be treated differently. It has to be open to all. No one has superiority over anyone else because of mere gender (or anything else). I hope I didn't just make a bunch of enemies by saying that, but I feel it is important to have open communications if we are going to resolve differences. It is just as important to realize some differences won't be resolved, but must be tolerated. My remarks were in the spirit of that. It seemed an appropriate time to make that known.

Once again, I implore you to remember my remarks were not meant towards anyone personally, and certainly administered to help the conversation, not just to irritate those reading it.

With all respect and sincerity,

John

__________________
John Dixon

Si vis pacem parabellum

Stay off the trails of others, that's where the booby-traps are.

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Joanie

John, your points are right on target and are sort of why I put up the poll in the first place. Sure, men could answer the questions just as well, they apply to men. But why is participation in this forum, other forums, clubs, magazines, demos, etc. mostly done by men? Look around. Look at who writes the Letters to the Editor. Look at who gives demos. Look at who writes books!! Why?

If women are uncomfortable in bonsai, knowing why would be useful. Maybe it just isn't as appealing to them as African Violets or orchids, if so then that's fine. But is it something more

You mention quite a few women, remember Kathy Shaner too, but if you count everyone in their echelon then they are a small percentage. Women are just as capable, just as patient, just as artistic, just as dedicated.... and can write/draw/demo just as well.

Looking at other gardening forums that are filled with women... as officers of clubs, demonstrators, showers, and authors, I just wanted to know why bonsai was different.

Joanie

RonMartin(deceased)

A silly thought but could it just be that women want it that way )

Will_Heath

First, I thought this poll was for women only, but since other males have chimed in, I thought I'd do the same.

This poll reflects a lot of the conversation that took place on another forum on the same subject.


Will

Joanie

Arnie, I'm ignoring you.... Your choice of clothing may even be more feminine than mine. Wouldn't be at all surprising.

John, now that Will mentions the other thread, I do want to make it clear that I have encountered NO bias, NO patronizing, nothing in that way at all. And wouldn't expect to, and would ignore it if it happened. Some women may be looking for reparation, but not that I've talked to. And there are plenty of women on forums, there are all-woman forums, there are forums that are much closer to equal. They participate plenty when they want to. Why not here?

No agenda was responsible for the poll. The questions are supposed to be totally neutral and open minded. And look at the result! So far (granted, only four have voted) no one seems at all to indicate that they are put down, or poorly considered. Maybe more women here will vote, and contrinue to reflect this trend, or maybe they will change the result.... but remember, this reflects only the views of women who do bonsai and participate already.

Anyway, without Art threads, how are we going to argue about anything??


Joanie

Will_Heath

Joanie,

The poll is blind to the men on this forum as the results are only visable to those who have voted, hence only women.


Will

RonMartin(deceased)

The votes were meant for women only but I thought the comments were open to all interested parties. Joanie will correct me if I am wrong on this.
I read the article on the link you gave. I am not too sure if I believe some of the numbers there. They don't fit with a lot of what I have experienced in the bonsai community but then that is nothing new is it.
I would like to hear more on the subject from the women on this forum. The other forum is well.......... the other forum )

RonMartin(deceased)

Guess that explains the title of the poll )
Results however are available to anyone that clicks on VIEW RESULTS.

BrianBay9

There's a "view poll results" link next to the questions, so us guys can stay informed.

Brian