Most expensive Bonsai trees on the net?

HB Smith

RockM,

I agree that most of the imported material from Japan is junk or often at best severely flawed. But there are a few specimens here and there that are superior bonsai worthy of a price tag of 4 or 5 digits. There are also probably only a dozen or so people that will pay this much for material here in the US, so demand is very low. It is quite an investment with slow to no turnaround. If I had a few grand to spend, I would definately consider a few quality imported pieces I've seen. How else would you add to your collection a tree that has the fine ramification and aged branches that have been worked on for 30 to 50 years? If this is a stigma tree, give me a dozen. And, if it pleases me, I would probably never sell it. But I bet many will still go up in value over the years. I have seen them do just that.

I also disagree when you state that some of our native material is vastly superior to what is seen in Japan. I would agree we have material that rivals Japan's, and with decades of work would equal Japan's important bonsai masterpieces, but not exceed. Do you have some examples to back up this statement (VASTLY superior)?

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Sincerely,
Howard

www.BonsaiSmiths.net

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BrianG

Howard,

How can you pick up girls in a $15,000 bonsai? I'd go for the car behind door number 2.

Cordially,
Brian

rockm

Vastly superior material has already been worked by Japanese American, and American artists here--one needs only to look as far as Naka's use of Montezuma cypress, the various artists using California juniper and poderosa pine. Nick Lenz' use of various and sundry unlikely, but highly adaptable species.

A further glance into California bonsai reveals alot of superior bonsai--far better than many of the Japanese trees I've seen. Take a look at Walter Pall's photo montage of his trip to California last year on the IBC website and the kinds of trees being grown--the Monterrey Cypress in one series of photos spring to mind, not to mention the live oaks of all sorts---The Japanese Diamyo oak can't hold a candle to any of our live oaks.

Take a look at Dan Robinson's stuff, Nick Lenz's trees...Mary Madison's, Chase Rosade's, Guy Guidry's, Ever been to the National Arboretum's North American pavilion and taken a look at who's done what to North American species? There are more different kinds of trees in that exhibit than in the number of species in the Japanese exhibit. Take a count next time you're there. You're going to say "numbers don't make them better." Might be true, but I'd say you're wrong. Do the species have the same history as the Japanese trees? Of course not. Doesn't make them superior as "bonsai" species though.

Bonsai material cannot be imported TO Japan FROM the U.S., so there is no traffic in that direction. However, that's only because of the law. I've heard repeatedly that collected junipers, pines, bald cypress would sell for pretty high prices there if they were allowed in.

As for "investing" in an imported "masterpiece," like art, that investment can be a little squishy. In order to recoup the ten, fifteen, twenty grand or more you "invest" in a tree, you would have to sell it very carefully.

I have "invested" some money in some higher quality trees, but I don't expect them to return 100 percent of their value. I'd be overjoyed with 50 percent. I would say that that would also hold true for an imported specimen that's been outside of Japan for more than five years or so. People willing to pay top dollar for an imported specimen are unlikely to pay that kind of money for a tree that's been kept by a humble American for any amount of time--unless you find somone that doesn't understand how bonsai change with their keepers. Most likely, I think more experienced buyers would go straight to the source and import their own. That would provide them with a virgin import with all the mystique still attached to it. Why go "second hand" when you can get an "original" from Japan for the same money?

Bonsai Barry

I am much more interested in the most "Exciting" bonsai on the Internet rather than the most expensive!

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Bonsai Barry

"Our talent lies in our choices."

John Dixon

Personally, I know people who sell bonsai for up to about $10,000, although the majority of their stock is less than $5000.

It sure seems the pedigree of the material is a big factor in the price. In a lot of cases, the lesser priced material is the better "visual" bonsai. However, the history of the higher priced trees inundates the discussion. A Kimura creation is more than likely going to be a nice bonsai, but it's not a given. Just because he worked on a tree doesn't mean it's automatically worth more (I bet he's killed a few bonsai in his time). That's not meant as disrespectful, but just to point out we need to be realistic in both purchasing and selling bonsai.

I compare this to the AKC type of dogs. Yeah, it might be full-blooded, but is it any good ?

To me, "the dog has to hunt". Otherwise what's the point? I see high priced bonsai in the same light.

John

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John Dixon

Si vis pacem parabellum

Stay off the trails of others, that's where the booby-traps are.

rockm

"That's not meant as disrespectful, but just to point out we need to be realistic in both purchasing and selling bonsai.

I compare this to the AKC type of dogs. Yeah, it might be full-blooded, but is it any good ?

To me, "the dog has to hunt". Otherwise what's the point? I see high priced bonsai in the same light."

The point comparing bonsai to show dogs is interesting. Show dogs have a huge variety of range. AKC is merely a registration center, not an indicator of quality. It was never intended to be anything other than a place that kept historical "stud books" for various breeds. It wasn't intended to become a stamp of approval or status. People have given it those stamps on their own. Same for "Japanese" bonsai. The same thinking that makes people think an AKC registered dog is better than one that's not, drives the thinking that all "superior" bonsai must come from Japan. Neither is true.

It is true that, by and large, AKC registered dogs will be a classic example of its breed. It is also true that, by and large, an expensive Japanese imported tree will be a superior example of bonsai. Neither source however, guarantees anything. That assumption is made by the buyer.

Judging from what I saw at WBFF, I think $5,000 would be entry level for lesser Japanese stock. To get the "good stuff" requires at least five figures or more. Five grand, however, buys top drawer native stock. The stock I saw in D.C. this summer from the likes of Miami Bonsai and a few others was much better than the $5,000 imported Japanese azaleas sitting next to it

RedPine

Wow,now that it has been pointed out bonsai and AKC show dogs are good for comparison.I commonly enough see both being sold out of the back of truck parked on the side of a road.

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rockm

Dont' get me wrong. Some of the best pit bulls I've ever seen were in the back of a pickup in Canton, Tex.

Good stock is good stock, no matter what it's pedigree. Some folks get hung up on the pedigree. That's what I'm saying.

Vance Wood

There is one over-whelming consideration before buying one of these masterpieces. Do you have the ability and knowledge to take care of it and maintain its artistic value over time?

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The only finished bonsai is a dead one; me 1992 MABA Des Moines Iowa