Minimal Bonsai

FredL

OK, all you bonsai geniuses who have been at this for years, as well as all us no-talent newbies, let me put a question to you: What represents a reasonable standard for beginning trees to be considered legitimate bonsai? Not world class, not excellent, first rate, or even good bonsai. But, legitimate, basic, "entry level" bonsai.

What is the essential difference between something that is a plant in a pot and a real, legitimate bonsai.

I have seen Walter Pall's comments on this in the past and I think he sets far to high a standard. I have seen a tree that I would consider a pretty good bonsai, clearly recognizable as a bonsai by the great majority of people either inside or outside of the Bonsai Community, described by him as not a bonsai at all but merely good material to start with in the creation of a legitimate bonsai. There was no question that the course he recommended for improving the tree in question would improve it considerably, but to say that is a great deal different from saying that it was not a bonsai at all.

It doesn't seem to me that a tree has to be world class to meet minimal standards of being a bonsai. Nor that any tree in a pot constitutes a legitimate bonsai, regardless of what a literal translation of the term means in Japanese.

Next Spring, I will be at a crossroads and must decide in the case of several of my trees whether I should continue them in grow boxes, trying to improve them still further as pre-bonsai material or whether to begin to try to create some actual bonsai with some of them. When I was taking classes in California, our instructor would have beginners work with trees of 18"to 30" and not much bigger than a pencil in diameter. We would create trees that certainly seemed at least equal to the trees we describe as Mallasai on this forum. We considered them to be bonsai, though certainly bonsai at the lowest level of quality and value. And, far inferior to the tree I saw Walter dismiss as merely good pre-bonsai material. Myself, I have seen trees offered for sale as bonsai that even I did not consider legitimate bonsai, and I think my standards have been a lot more forgiving than those of many others.

I'd be very interested in what others view as minimal standards for a tree to be considered as a minimally acceptable bonsai. I would find such a discussion very helpful in deciding where to go next with my best material, as well as just a darned interesting question in its own right.

Fred

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I think, for me and most of the members in my club, that the bonsai must have the four basic elements of bonsai design. It must have line, form, color and texture. .




Paul

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Attila

Hi Fred,

You provided me with the perfect question to chew on just when I sat down for a nice dinner and a beer (after a day of hard work).
Thank you for giving the opportunity to shoot off my mouth.

This question is similar to the one asking which is the best colour to wear for the Friday night party.
For my taste, the first and foremost criteria is the hight/nebari diameter ratio. It varies from species to species. For example, trident maple sould have at least 5:1, more like 4:1.
As soon as the desire taper is achieved, the runway is clear for take-off.
Exceptions are mature collected material with strong character. Here, the above ratio is preceded by trunk movement, bark, branch placement.

All the best,
Attila

Walter_Pall

Fred,

A bonsai is a little tree in a pot that touches my heart.
That's my definition of bonsai.
If a little tree in a pot does not touch my heart, it is not a bonsai (yet maybe).

I am sorry, those are a minority among the candidates.

best regards
Walter Pall

TreeBay

FredL,

I think it's a moving target. Your standards will continue to evolve as your skill and eye improve. I have heard a lot of enthusiasts who visit gardens in Japan return wanting to throw away all their plants when they get home, dismissing them as rubbish. Few people actually give up because of that, but it is an eye opener.

If you can't make the trip to Japan, get yourself an exhibition book (they scroll through from time to time on the ebay list on the homepage here) Kokufu, Sakufu, Taikan-ten, etc. In the pages there you will get a sense of what excellent bonsai can be. Seeing them in person, however, is epiphanic!

Bonsai is popular in zen meditation because it incorporates so well some of the principles of zen. Like zen, bonsai can't be explained fully in words, but it can be experienced. Trying to talk about it in a rational way can drive you into fits:

You could say, for example, "Bonsai is truth" and be correct, that perhaps it speaks to the fundamental relationships of man and nature, or you could say the opposite: "Bonsai is an illusion" (a plant appearing to be a mature tree in a pot) and be correct too. You could say "Bonsai is happiness" because that is how you feel when you work with a tree or enjoy a display, or you could say "Bonsai is loneliness" for the same reason.

Regards,

Matt

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FredL

Thanks for the replies. They are thought provoking.

I've been thinking about trying to catagorize trees. Here's what I thought about 5 catagories:

1. National Treasures. There are only a few of these trees in the world; certainly less than 200. They are worth several $100,00 to a few miilion dollars each, and are typically many centuries old and have been in cultivation for at least decades. They are the work of world renowned masters and many of them are recognizable on sight by real bonsai enthusiasts.

2. World Class trees. There are, perhaps, a few thousand of these trees. They have been developed from the finest material, sometimes collected, sometimes bonsai of lesser worth, by world renowned artists, many from Japan. They are displayed at the most prestigious bonsai shows and valued from perhaps $50,000 to several $100,000. They are charactarized by ancient appearing trunks and nebari as well as very well developed branches. They are of highly unusual and interesting appearance and sometimes represent stylistic breakthroughs by the finest artists. A Walter Pall is capable of producing trees in this catagory.

3. Trees of excellent quality. These trees have been developed from very fine material but are a notch below World Class trees. They are valued at a few thousand dollars to, perhaps $50,000. They do not represent stylistic break throughs, but are of very high degrees of craftsmanship and typically represent trees that have been in development for many years or that have been developed from very good material, generally by exceptional artists with a firm grasp of good bonsai technique. They rise to the level of high quality art and are instantly recognizable as high quality art.

4. Trees of good quality. The staple of high end Bonsai Commerce. Commercial level bonsai trees, mass produced by professional bonsai nurseries or trees produced by skilled amatuers or journemen level professionals. Neither exceptional nor possessing any particular originality, but well executed with a good level of craftsmanship. The target for beginning hobbiests. Produced from material of reasonable but unexceptional quality. Valued at a few hundred dollars to, perhaps, $6 or $8,000.

5. Mallasai or Hobbiest trees of low quality. My neighbor, Mrs. "Clip and Grow" has produced a number of these trees. They are also produced in large numbers for the Winter holiday season and sold to, primarily, non-bonsai knowledgable consumers in non-bonsai venues. I think they might be termed "Sub-bonsai Trees" as they do not measure up to a reasonable bonsai minimum standard acceptable to the general Bonsai Community. Most of them would require further development to be considered reasonable starting material by amatuer practitioners with a mastery of basic bonsai techniques. These trees sell, typically, for, perhaps $30 to $40 up to perhaps $200.

My take is that bonsai beginners who have reached a basic understanding of the art will be striving to avoid creating catagory 5 trees and to get their trees into catagory 4. Certainly, that seems to be what I'm trying to do. Generally, material for acceptable trees must have charcaristics or be refined to the point that it is well beyond what is used for catagory 5 trees and is valued in the same range as completed "Sub-bonsai" trees.

Well, there it is, and how I define my own, personal challenge. I doubt that I will get beyond it in my life time or with my level of talent.

Fred

RonMartin(deceased)

A good question Fred but I am not sure if it has an answer. Every viewer of a "bonsai" will have a different opinion. A different standard.
Defining the word bonsai is about as hard a defining time without using the word time in the definition. I guess it could be done but not by me.
In all my years in bonsai I have never seen two people agree on what a certain bonsai should look like. If one could line up 100 bonsai masters and have them ,one at a time, critique a bonsai then one would get 100 different answers. Sad but true.
Now if you wanted to know what the best color in the world is (colour for our English friends) then there is an acceptable answer. Everyone would have a favorite. But the best answer would be plaid.
I guess it becomes a bonsai when the owner calls it one. But then maybe it deserves that title only when a viewer decides to call it one. Best I can do on the subject.

Walter_Pall

'If one could line up 100 bonsai masters and have them ,one at a time, critique a bonsai then one would get 100 different answers.'

Ron,

I am afraid that this is not the case. Whatever a master is, it is probably not the average bonsai enthusiast. What I consider master ( I think it is a ridiculous habit to put ' around the term master) I know about 80 % of them personally and have shared thoughts with them. I know what an outcome would be. It is close to get 30 different answers when asking 100 masters.

How do I know this? Well, I had to particpate on judging together with other masters quite often. Lets take we had to choose the ten best of 200 trees. If you were right we would choose ten differnet trees. The reality is usually that more than 50 percent are the same trees.

BTW: Quite often the general public has very differet trees on their list and does not understand our decision. Tough luck!

best regards
Walter Pall

Walter_Pall

Fred,

your list makes a lot of sense to me. I would lower the price tags. In Japan your prices are correct. Outside the real good trees cost a fraction. The prices are only much higher outside of Jpan for your category number 5 and maybve 4. This is too bad.

Did you know that a world class juniper that would cost 100,000 in Japan costs less than 10,000 in America or Europe?
Just seeing my growing field. Visiting Japanese masters have said that it would be worth millions - in Japan. I can barly sell a tree that costs more than one grand. My widow would get maybe 20,000 for the whole field which is supposed to be worth 'millions'.

best regards
Walter Pall