Juniper Biology-Last Post

mkingiii

First off, iam a senior in chemical engineering with a minor in cell and molecular biology, so I know nothing on earth simply goes from living to dead without passing through stages. This is especially true of higher life forms like animals and plants. Thus, since junipers are plants they do not simply go from living to dead without first passing through some intermediate "damaged" phase or phases.

Secondly, the junipers foliage is not yellow or brown. I said it was a yellow green. The foliage is still green, only now it is now lighter and yellow green happens to be how I view the color they have become, go look in a crayon box. I have seen decidedly dead yellow brown foliage with not even a hint of green. I know what dead foliage looks like and the bonsai's foliage is not it. Also, although the foliage is brittle and some what hard it does not simply flake off like dead foliage, it still requires a moderate amount of pull to remove.

Finally, I personally have had a previous bonsai, my very first, which seemed to die on me. The foliage actaully turned brown and began to fall of on its own. However, I did not give up, I got the watering right, and the bonsai recovered with only moderate branch damage,and for two years now and it is still living.

With this said I will no longer be posting on this forum as none of the post have anything important to say. All I keep getting is that the bonsai is dead, and for some reason all of you remove the green from my description of the foliage as yellow green. The foliage is not yellow, it still is green just not as dark a green. Also, I know the bonsai can be saved as I, a "noob" at the art of bonsai, was able to save my first juniper from a much more "dead" state simply by watering it as normal and not stoping. I didnt use any feed or formula, just water.

HOWEVER, if any of you actually know anything about junipers and their biology, and know how to save the bonsai without it suffering the branch damage my first one did, please your help would be greatly appreciated.

-Note I have been talking about two different junipers. My first one, the one I braught back from the "dead" as it seems all of you would have declared it had you seen it two years ago, is doing great with only minor remaining branch damage. It is the second juniper that Iam trying to now save.

Thank you for the use of the forum, while I do not feel any of you really know anything about junipers, other than that they need water and sunlight, I appreciate your responses.

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Jay

OK I'll try and touch this thread. First.... stay if you feel the board is helpful, leave if you do not.

Your first posted thread was 16 hours ago on a day that many feel to be a holiday. They may be spending it with family or just not here. I agree with your thought that many of the members of this board...not all, are not knowledgeable enough to give advise.

As for your junipers....how about some information! You are a scientist so you should appreciate the need for accuate information to aid in getting results.

Are the tree(s) living indoors or out?
Are the tree(s) old or young?
Are they in Zone 3 or 5 or 10? or at least where on the face of the earth do they live?
Do you know the 'type' of juniper? Different types have different color to them.
Are there any pictures to submit....as you can imagine the internet is fairly removed from first hand observations a picture helps.

Now as to the trees...I believe you can not kill a dead tree. So what is there to hurt trying to revive it as you mention. But remember come December many will bring beautifully green cut trees into their homes. These trees will look wonderful and green for a long time and yes they were cut from the ground in some cases weeks earlier...are they alive?

As I said earlier leave if you must, but patience is the best tool available to those of us doing Bonsai. Perhaps waiting for a reply a little longer than 16 hours could bring better results...

just my 2 cents
Jay

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Thomas_J.

mkingiii,

When I tried my first juniper, a procumbens, about six or seven years ago, I too had the problem of the branches going from a light green then to a yellow. They also weren't falling off, but it didn't take much as you said to pull them off. It wasn't long before the whole tree was like that. I thought it must need more sun because of the yellowing, but that wasn't it. a few years ago I tried my hand at the junipers again, and after aquiring some really nice stock and styling them over a period of time, I really liked what I came up with and hoped I wouldn't lose these guys like tha last one. But sure enough the yellowing started up again, but this time I was determined to to do something about it.

So like you I posted my question on some of the forums, but hardly got any answers that pleased me. So I decided to try something I hadn't tried before, and that was to try Chelated Iron. That was the answer for my junipers.
I also started using an organic fertilizer with micronutrients. It's the micronutrients that our trees really need also. Most chemical fertilizers have these, but they also are pretty high in nitrogen which will probably give you a lot of unneeded growth. That's why I use organics because they aren't as high.

I believe if you start using the Chelated Iron, you will soon see the light coloring stopping and the return of a bright green again. I'm sure you probably know that those branches that turned yellow will not turn back to green again. They will have to back bud and start over again.

I hope you will stick around here for a while and not let this little misunderstanding run you off. Most people here mean well and really do try and help. You sometimes have to discern which post is helping and which isn't. comes with the territory I guess.

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jloeschner

mkingiii,

I apologize if I have offended you in some way. I did acknowledge your experience with your prior juniper, and I then went on to tell you of my experiences with them.

There are many people here who have many years of experience with bonsai. I am not one of them. However, I do have about 20 years of experience growing plants in general. I realize that bonsai have to be kept and cared for differently than an "ordinary" potted plant, and am still learning how to keep them alive and healthy.

The reason I referred to your tree as "dead" is because, based on my experience with juniper, both as bonsai and as landscape plants, I have noticed that crispy leaves, regardless of color, tend to denote a dead or dying plant. In the case of junipers and some other conifers, the first sign of ill health is usually death.

Take the example provided by Jay above. Christmas trees are usually some form of spruce, pine or juniper. They are cut down and placed in a pot of water. They remain green and, in some cases, even pliable for several weeks. These trees are dead. There is no bringing them back, regardless of the state of their foliage. That is the nature of conifers, and it does not take a chemistry or biology degree to figure it out. All it takes is experience.

I encourage you to hang around the forum and at least read the posts by the more advanced members. You will find that they do know what they are talking about. I will refrain from answering your questions, since my answers seem to offend you, and I don't want you to leave on my account. Please be patient and give this forum a chance. It is one of the best on the web.

Regards,
John

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Vance Wood

Without seeing a picture of the tree or the tree in person we can only go on our understanding of what you say. As has been pointed out you have not supplied a good deal of information to draw on so you kind of have to accept the best guess scenario.

There are three things that can cause a Juniper to turn yellow/green. Too much water, too much sun, or too much fertilizer. It is also possible an attempt to grow the tree indoors is the culprit if that is the case. That being said the best way to get good information from someone, who is not getting paid to supply it, is not to come into the arena and call every body low down and foul smelling.

Go to a doctor sometime complaining of head aches. If treating the symptoms does not work they start doing tests and then sometimes they cannot determine what is causing the problem. You come from a background of an exact science, bonsai is not an exact science. Most doctors draw on a more or less play book of symptoms and causes which is not always right, bonsai is no different.

For what it is worth I have been growing bonsai for nearly fifty years if that means anything to you. As to your comment about nothing going from living to dead without going through stages is not exactly true at least in the visual/phisical presentation that we are able to examine. I have seen Junipers stay green long after they have died.

I saw one in a lady's house a number of years ago that she has had for ten years. She thought it was alive but I guarantee you it was as dead as King Tut and just about as mumified. Junipers, because of they high resin content, can die and stay green looking for years sometimes.

tuckerg

totally agrre with vance.i collected some common junipers that were excellent bonsai material.they stayed in the green house for 2 years,staying green and looking good material for workshops.on repotting i was horrified to find no roots.zilch.the roots had broken down and rotted,but above ground evrything was green and perfect.they were probaby dead a few months after collection,but stayed green due to the sap.

Attila

I've thought this is common knowledge:

Junipers never die.
They just fade away.


(would this pass for a haiku?)

bonsaikc

is it just me, or is he as prickly as his juniper must be by now?

Chris

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