Juniper air Layer instead of collect??

thedoc_

Hi everybody,

I have found an area, not far from where i live, with beautiful Juniper (Juniperus Phoenicea, similar to Chinensis). The problem is that the most beautiful trees are grown into rock holes and it is impossible to dig them out..... Has anyone tried air layering in these cases, as close to the rock (or ground) as possible?

Thanks
S.

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tachigi

Hi Doc, I have air layered Junipers up to forearm thickness. So it should be possible for you. The only draw back I see is that the layer will take place in a public area...hence looky loos. People out of natural curiosity will poke and prod your layer container or package. Which undoubtedly will disturb the process.

Ever thought of hydralic dynamite...

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gregb

How much collecting have you done The trees you have posted look like ideal candidates for collecting. You need to have the proper tools and a shovel isn't one of them. Are there others who have success collecting these junipers in your area? I would consider getting some advice from local people who have had success collecting them.

lance111

Hi,
I would certainly look into chipping away at the rock and lifting them..!
There are some lovely speciems in the pics and it would be a shame for an air layer to go wrong.. It will be hard work, but well worth it if you can pull it off..
take care, Lance..

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thedoc_

I have done some collecting the last 2 years and the success rate was very good. I have collected from the specific area only a couple of trees that were easily collectible, but most of these beautiful junipers are grown in very tight cracks and holes, the rock is solid, one piece and it looks as if the roots reach the centre of the earth. I have tried to chip the rock with tools but it is so hard.....

As for advice, it is not possible to get any because in Cyprus very few people are dealing with bonsai; actually i am trying for 2 years now to establish a club. I invited a Bonsai master from the UK 2 years ago and i organised a demonstration, wrote an article in a local magazine, but everything moves too slow. Sometimes people ask for my advice and i cannot help them....

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gregb

I didn't suggest chipping any rock or defacing the rock in any way; that was Lance's comment. Any time I collect from solid rock like this, I work to remove the roots of the tree carefully from the edge of the hole or crack, down along the rock to the bottom of the hole or crack and work all the way around the tree. Sometimes they pop right out, sometimes it may take half a day or more if the hole or crack has undercut edges and the trunk has wedged itself in over time.

When you say the rock is solid, what leads you to think the roots go down that far

That juniper has had hundreds of years to fasten itself securely in those pockets in the rock. It will take a little more care and effort to get them out, but I can assure you--it is possible and I have done it many times

I've never been to Cyprus, why don't you fly me over and I'll show you how it's done

thedoc_

WHen i try to move the trees with my hand, i feel there is no way to manage taking them out; these damn trees do not seem to move at all.

I have studies the crack patterns on other rocks in the area and i feel that due to lots of undercuts and several smaller cracks at the bottom of the bigger ones, it would be very difficult if not impossible to take the tree out without leaving back most of the root system.

I will try what you said though, and will let you know.
Thanks.
Stav.

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gregb

It's a good thing if you can't move the trunk; that means a dense, fibrous root pad has the tree strongly adhered to the rock substrate. One very important thing you must not do and that is use the trunk for leverage to get the tree out of the rock!! As I mentioned above, start from the edge of the hole and gently work down to the bottom of the pocket and do this all the way around. Take your time and do it right, after all it took hundreds of years for that tree to attach itself to the rock. It's only fair to take the time to do the job right. I carry a spray bottle to keep the rootpad moist while I pry the tree out and lessen the shock. If it looks like you're going to damage the tree trying to get it out, it's best to leave it until you get more experience. Those are some nice old trees and not worth killing due to lack of experience.

People think that collecting is slam/dunk easy to do. They are wrong! There is an art to it--one first has to develop an eye for what is good material and then the judgement/ability to see it through to the tree in the pot that we all desire. This can only be achieved through years of practice, trial and error and yes, killing a few trees

May I ask what tools are in your backpack for collecting such trees

thedoc_

Thank you very much for your advice. I know it is difficult to collect trees and it takes time to learn the proper way. This is the reason i am very conservative. I prefer to leave a tree in place and admire it in its natural environment than killing it....

As for tools, i use a spade (not very useful in this case), a long blund blade to seperate the root pad from the rock, folding saw, regular pruner.
To be honest with you, i was going to ask you for you recommendations on tools for this case.

Thank you again for your valuable input.
STav.

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