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Is it Japanese or Chinese

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Old 8-Mar-2006   #11
AncientLegend
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Japanese or Chinese
Last year some friends and I were touring the Montreal Bonsai Gardens and someone asked that question. As I lamely struggled to explain, the curator walked by and volunteered "Chinese is realistic, Japanese is idealistic". Not bad.
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Old 8-Mar-2006   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AncientLegend
Last year some friends and I were touring the Montreal Bonsai Gardens and someone asked that question. As I lamely struggled to explain, the curator walked by and volunteered "Chinese is realistic, Japanese is idealistic". Not bad.
Well now don't I feel sheepish.... lol You quoted in six words the exact idea of my several hundred. Good on you!

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Last edited by Victrinia_Ensor : 8-Mar-2006 at 07:01 PM.
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Old 8-Mar-2006   #13
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I'm impressed by the comments so far.

Thank you Ms. Vic for your explaination. AcientLegend, that is quite a profound statement and may be the best yet descriding the difference in the two styles.

I'm very glad this hasn't degenerated into a one is better than the other debate.

I look forward to more comments and examples
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Old 8-Mar-2006   #14
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I have found with the Chinese art(Japanese aswell) fantasy is just as much a part of it as the "real". Some is made to remind us of that perfect tree, sometimes that certain tree you would sit under for an afternoon smoke or those bluffs along the Yangtze and the 3 gorges.Other works are straight out of a vivid dream bearing immortals and dragons floating in the clouds above all the mundane thoughts of man.Sometimes one has to be familiar with Chinese culture,history,religion,folk tales and so on to even appreciate and understand what exactly is being expressed through a Penjing.

The coment Chinese is realistic and Japanese is idealistic is a little on the noob side of it.
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Old 8-Mar-2006   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedPine
I have found with the Chinese art(Japanese aswell) fantasy is just as much a part of it as the "real". Some is made to remind us of that perfect tree, sometimes that certain tree you would sit under for an afternoon smoke or those bluffs along the Yangtze and the 3 gorges.Other works are straight out of a vivid dream bearing immortals and dragons floating in the clouds above all the mundane thoughts of man.Sometimes one has to be familiar with Chinese culture,history,religion,folk tales and so on to even appreciate and understand what exactly is being expressed through a Penjing.
Absolutely true... it's a very cultural thing... just the way it is with the Japanese. Do you know of any examples of Chinese poetry or writtings that expresses their thoughts on the nature of penjing? I know you enjoy to research such things.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RedPine
The coment Chinese is realistic and Japanese is idealistic is a little on the noob side of it.
Ah! but my friend... for the noob, it is a great place to start. Just like AncientLegend's quote is concise, my own response was verbose. Each is possesed of value depending on the level of interest within the curious. If the curious noob asks and is satisfied with the six word answer, he will be content at that level. But for people like you, Cordon, myself and many of our friends, the advanced fleshed out answers will only begin to satisfy the desire of our mind to grasp it.

I personally have drawn many times from your extensive knowledge in this... In fact I will admit that your own great interest in penjing is what started me off down the road to my own appreciation. I really liked your comment. It added even more to my own perspective. And for that I thank you very much.

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Last edited by Victrinia_Ensor : 8-Mar-2006 at 07:03 PM.
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Old 8-Mar-2006   #16
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I have adopted the explanation that Japanese bonsai are styled by wiring and bending, in addition to pruning. Penjing is more clip and grow, less "forceful" influence by man.
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Old 8-Mar-2006   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lordy611
I have adopted the explanation that Japanese bonsai are styled by wiring and bending, in addition to pruning. Penjing is more clip and grow, less "forceful" influence by man.

I may be wrong... and I will rely on someone else to confirm this... but I don't think that is precisely true. I'll have to see what I can ferret out in that regards. But I would be interested to know where you came by that conclusion. It's something I've heard before... and also something I've heard was not correct.

I ask this in pure interest only... not trying to shoot you down by any stretch of the imagination.

Yours most respectfully,
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Old 8-Mar-2006   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Victrinia_Ensor
I may be wrong... and I will rely on someone else to confirm this... but I don't think that is precisely true. I'll have to see what I can ferret out in that regards. But I would be interested to know where you came by that conclusion. It's something I've heard before... and also something I've heard was not correct.

I ask this in pure interest only... not trying to shoot you down by any stretch of the imagination.

Yours most respectfully,


Clip and grow, is the Lingnan school of penjing, one of many. Check the link for some reading on the subject.
http://www.phoenixbonsai.com/BigPic...eseSchools.html

Mike
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Old 8-Mar-2006   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mike_p
Clip and grow, is the Lingnan school of penjing, one of many. Check the link for some reading on the subject.
http://www.phoenixbonsai.com/BigPic...eseSchools.html

Mike

WOW Mike... what a marvelous reference! Many thanks.


Yours most kindly,
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Old 8-Mar-2006   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lordy611
I have adopted the explanation that Japanese bonsai are styled by wiring and bending, in addition to pruning. Penjing is more clip and grow, less "forceful" influence by man.



Wire and cutting tools have been and are used in Penjing.Your explanation for Penjing here would better aimed at a certain artist and the methods of selected trees they have created rather than lumping the entire art into it.
In one book I have read there is an entry where the artist has done nothing other than discover,collect,root prune,pot and care for the tree.This is a rare thing to do, I can not just say Penjing is about putting a tree in a pot and keeping it alive for shows.That would be like saying the point of basketball is to only bounce the ball and run.Some people only bouncing the ball and running is enough,for others they want to get underneath it and be (live) basketball.Penjing aswell as Bonsai is a complicated and vast world,sometimes the artist work is very simple while others are interweaved with the whole fabric of our lives, spirtual and otherwise.The thing about art is it's never exausted.
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