Japanese Black Pine (nursery stock)

Boondock

i don't want to kill them or get in over my head. I'm new to this.

This is where I'm at now concerning bonsai, this picture represents all my experience. 10 pond baskets, and only evergreen conifers.


So I've never done a "trunk chop" Can anybody give me some advice on what could be done? Which tree (A or B) has more potential? Are they both good? I'd most likey go the same route as the small pines I have already and transplant them into large pond baskets. The baskets I've been using are 10"X10", but the hardware store I bought them at, has much larger.

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md4958

Sorry Boon,

I didnt mean to imply that you would kill them. I was trying to imply that I think you could handle these trees...but if they did happen to die it wouldnt be a huge monetary loss.

...I would grab 'em both. Even if you just buy one, and use it for practice...needle plucking, candle pinching, pruning, etc... just to see how this species reacts.

Good Luck,
Moe

Ralph

It's fine to disagree with me, we all will learn. But, correct me if I am wrong, but the point of the article I mention above, that is if indeed you suceed in finding black pines with low branching at your landscape nursery, and you begin your chopping now, you are a good 5 years away from good internodal spacing and needle reduction, and still, more years away from a good bonsai.
If you go to a bonsai nursery looking for material that is a least pre-trained, and know what you are looking for, you should be expecting to eliminate that first five
years. Of course that requires that you have the knowledge, or are bringing an experienced person with you.
There is also no reason you can't buy the material in this thread, but you should know before hand that you are getting into a lot of years work before you do that.

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Boondock

Ralph, I don't intend to have a tree in a bonsai pot until 2011 as it is now, TIME is what I have. What I don't have is an experienced eye to find some stock, that I can afford, has potential, and I can keep alive until I do.

please don't fight in this thread. I really want some help.

BONSAI_OUTLAW

boonie...tree "a" is my tree..how did that guy get my tree? lol if i saw that tree i would have bought it right then...if i knew where it was i would buy it right now...go get it before victrinia tells me where they are..lol...

bonsaikc

In my opinion, based on bitter and disappointing experience, these trees will waste five or more years of your time and end up on the compost pile anyway. In five years' time you will have learned enough about good bonsai that you will give up in your desire to work with them. Their roots will be hopelessly tangled and impossible to improve. You will perform a trunk chop or two and have a collection of chopped nursery stock, not bonsai. Please understand that I am not putting you down or these trees. Either of these would make good landscape trees.

If you wish to learn how to keep Japanese black pines alive and growing, and how to train them, I suggest something much smaller. If they die, it's less of an investment. If they live, you have more possibilities to train them.

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Brent

Well, I wouldn't be quite as pessimistic as Chris above, but these are just starter trees, despite their caliper. As far as the price goes, that's pretty typical for landscape black pines this size.

Your purchase bought you one thing, the first step on the way to bonsai: the first or base trunk section, that's it. These cannot realistically be used for upright pines as they are, there is no taper. It is up to you to choose a low branch and have that branch be the foundation of the next trunk section. If you have a really strong tree, you could cut back to this branch in one swell foop and hold you breath. Otherwise, you could reduce the top down to this branch in stages.

Chris is right about the nebari. The first thing you should do is scratch away that surface layer of soil and see what the roots like. Since this will be a fifteen year project anyhow, the roots may be salvageable. If there are coiling roots around the trunk that have already partly grown into it, put it on the burn pile. If there are some nice flat radial roots not completely covered with a tangled mass, then you may be able to get a decent nebari in time.

Material like this can be instructive, but I wouldn't invest time in it unless it had potential in the nebari, buttress and next trunk section (existing branch). Learning is one thing, but we are talking about a decade of experience, why not just shop around for the best potential? That $45 is going to be an insignificant amount ten years from now, what will really be valuable is the labor you put into it.

Brent
EvergreenGardenworks.com
see our blog at http://BonsaiNurseryman.typepad.com

Boondock

Ralph, bonsaiKC and Brent, thanks guys, I appreciate your input, I'm starting to lean away from the idea. I wasn't really shopping for a big Black Pine like these, but when I saw them, it just seemed like a good idea. I was just being a novice, doing what novices do. Checking out all the nurseries for stock.

I'm not totally against the idea of these tree, but I will return to the nursery and explore the roots. The owner probably thinks I'm nuts.

Did you notice, that everybody from Texas, said BUY!

JGamby713

Hey Boondock,

You got some good advice from Brent and BonsaiKC as well as the others. I would think I would still buy one IF you have a place in the ground to plant it. For $45 you could have a tree to learn on and start the process of pinching, trunk chops, etc... all the while having a landscape tree theat COULD be a bonsai one day. If not, no big deal you learned how to care for a pine at the same time...

I know Brent and Chris both have some good articles on pine care, in addition to that I would buy the book from Stone Lantern on pines. The best book I have found thus far....

Check out those roots, if it isn't too bad duy it to learn on... Just my 2 cents...

Jason

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