|
|
|||||||
| Register | FAQ | Members List | Calendar | Mark Forums Read |
| Forum | Gallery | Weather | Journals | Links | Webring | Wiki | NEW:Shop |
| Articles | Opinion | T.O.D. | NEW:Radio | Contests | Humor | NEW: Auctions! | Donate |
 |
|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes | ||
|
| ||||
24-Nov-2003
|
#41 |
|
Guest
Posts: n/a
|
Hi Ron,
"Andy I just got done reading your E-book. Spent most of the morning reading it. Actually it is a pretty good book. Does a good job of explaining the why of the ascetics of bonsai. I actually learned a lot from it." Thanks, Ron. I'm glad that you enjoyed the book. I appreciate your letting me know. "I especially like the part where you said "After all, communication requires understanding on the part of both the speaker and the listener." A good thing for a teacher as well as the student to remember. Both need to understand the why of things. Better than doing it just because you are told to." This is taken just a bit out of context. Communicating with art to the public and teaching/learning an art are two separate contexts. Let's not be too smart by half. Learning involves both a desired end result and a process. The lesson of the process is usually more important than the lesson of the substance (like teaching a man to fish instead of giving a man a fish). This is why valuable teachers don't spoonfeed their students. Instead, they place obstacles in the way of their students so that the students have to put forth extra effort and endure what they imagine to be irrelevancies of hardship - but in the process they learn how to learn and learn far more than they otherwise would. Most people don't know how to learn. The teacher has to teach this as well as teaching the substance of the endeavor. The process of learning how to learn is uncomfortable to most people. Tough. Those who seek comfort in the learning process are not interested in learning - they're interested in "participating," - and on their own naive terms. Show me a comfortable student and I'll show you someone who's learning diddley squat. Kind regards, Andy Rutledge zone 8, Texas |
|
|
Sponsor Message
|
Guide To Bonsai Critique |
|
Forum Sponsor
|
|
|
24-Nov-2003
|
#42 |
|
I stand and stare a lot
 
|
I have followed this thred with great interest and was reminded of something that happened to me a little while ago when I posted a mame tree in training for critique on another forum.
Amongst others, I received a very specific reply (from a well known bonsai practitioner) that a light green pot about 2/3 of the size of the current pot would be an improvement. What was my immediate reaction? It was to ask myself "why did he say that?" I looked up in my books, on the net, asked lots of people in the know and made virtuals of the tree with all manner of pots of various colours and sizes. I found that a smaller pot enhanced the presentation of the nebary and the size of the trunk and that the light green colour harmonised with both the colour of the trunk and the foliage (trough all its changes in coulour through the year). Whats more important, along the way I picked up a lot of information (some of it conflicting) and knowledge about the importance of the relationship and harmony between a Tree and its Pot. It would have been a lot easier to just reply to the poster and ask him the question, but..... what would he have said to me? His answer would have most likley been:"A smaller pot enhances the presentation of the nebary and the size of the trunk and the light green colour harmonises with both the colour of the trunk and the foliage (trough all its changes in colour through the year)." Same destination, different Journey. I have to agree with Andy that doing something will lead to a greater understanding and that questions (especially on a forum such as this) should be asked to confirm decisions made from research rather than to obtain "Instant" knowledge. Kind regards Mike
__________________
I refuse to have a battle of wits with an unarmed person |
|
|
|
24-Nov-2003
|
#43 |
|
Attila Soos
 Join Date: Jan-2002
Location: Los Angeles, California
Country: USA
Posts: 1,980
|
Pondering on finding the place of internet forums in the learning process...
Obviously there is no teacher-student relationship or trust here since we don't know each other on a personal level. I call it Global Brainstorming. Lots of data, good deal of information ( = processed data), and tons of opinions (=collection of good and bad data, good and bad info). Some people just want to have fun, so they "experiment" with ideas, see what happens, how many "hits" will they score. So we need to sort out the good from bad. The principles of learning in a teacher/student situation have to be applied with extra caution. One can get quick help, but also be easily harmed by "false prophets". And sometimes we get great information, but we became so jaded that we discard it as just another opinion. Who can make sense outta this? Funny thing, this internet... Attila Last edited by Attila : 24-Nov-2003 at 08:03 PM. |
|
|
|
|
24-Nov-2003
|
#44 | |
|
Bonsai nare-do-well
|
Quote:
Not sure that I totally understand. Care to give me a bit better explanation. |
|
|
|
|
|
25-Nov-2003
|
#46 |
|
Paul Berish
 
Join Date: Jun-2002
Location: north shore of Lake Superior
Country: Minnesota
USDA Zone: 3/4
Posts: 1,197
|
Andy......no harm done...I will reread the criteria. And get back to you. Carl has a good jumpstart on this already.
Carl, This thread has gotten lengthy and forgot some of what you said...will return and continue your discussion soon. Paul
__________________
It is essential to experience all the times and moods of one good place. (Thomas Merton) BonsaiTalk is one good place. (me) |
|
|
|
|
25-Nov-2003
|
#47 |
|
Paul Berish
Join Date: Jun-2002
Location: north shore of Lake Superior
Country: Minnesota
USDA Zone: 3/4
Posts: 1,197
|
I heard others lined up for this
It was mentioned that Dennis and Al were seen in a Las Vegas wedding chapel early in the a.m.
__________________
It is essential to experience all the times and moods of one good place. (Thomas Merton) BonsaiTalk is one good place. (me) |
|
|
|
|
27-Nov-2003
|
#48 |
|
bonsaiTALK Journeyman
|
Ladies & Gentlemen:
Boy that is corny for an intro to my first post. But how else is one to address all the people on the forum. I have heard many good things about this list compared to others and as a result have droped the others to join this one. I have been in Bonsai for 7 years. Have taken courses from Ron Martin, Jim Moody, Jim Smith and Colin Lewis to name a few. I have a 45 tree collection from tropicals to hardy species. Favorites are Topicals (rain trees) and Hardy (ilex and junipers). I am cutting back to maybe 10 good finished trees and will get them up to show level and them work on the balance showly. On this tread about guestions and teachers. I have leaned the most in bonsai and in my profession as a projects manager when I question to the void. By this I mean I ask questions of individuals on a topic or subject until there are no answers. In this way I know that I have pulled out all the information I can and I need to move on. I Bonsai I have learned that like in all fields there is nothing really new and different. Trees have been here for ages and can only do so many things without being killed. This is not to say I do not have alot to learn and that by being with bonsai people does not enhances my knowledge each day. In fact I do and it does. All the people I have had the privalage to work with named and unnamed are really great in sharing information and vision. I have had a Question answwered "because I am the artist" before. But then I got little out of that answer. JUst my way of learning and expectations of Teachers. Richard |
|
|
|
|
28-Nov-2003
|
#49 |
|
Bonsai Doer
|
We have a few ladies, and few gentlemen
Hummm... Leave out one word and it means something totally different Welcome, Al
__________________
A tree a day...thats all we ask. |
|
|
|
|
28-Nov-2003
|
#50 |
|
bonsaiTALK Journeyman
|
Thanks Al. I know I ahve joined this thread a bit late but I had to get in on this one some how after hearing about this discourse on teaching and studenting.
looking back on some of the words passed by Andy and Ron and others I must say one thing. TIME OUT GUYs. Bonsai has been around for what 1000 years? Do we really think that we are coming up with anything new in this field? All we are doing is changing the words or using a new term for something that has already been done. Yes I will admit that a person like Kimora does wonders with dead wood and has infact brought it further into bonsai then most before him. But to say that this is new is pushing it a bit. To say that one book is better then all the rest is a real stretch. We all read (I hope) and find different authers better then others. The ones we favor speak to us. Others do not. What one person finds as the diffinitive book to another person may be a poor book and vise versa. I have read many books on bonsai and have found many old books in used book stores. Funny that with the exception of the quality of the photo prints the words are very similar to those I find in 2003 books. Same format even, history, styles, examples, tools, food, diseases, etc. (index's are the same). What we are missing in this field (and John Naka comes the closest to it) is a difinitive work on design. But then I have found out that most of the really good artists are graphic artists by training. Others have an eye for the tree. Once I realized this I listened to graphic artists, read their books and started to look for the eye. Low and behold after 3 years I think I have found the eye ( not both yet), but in my last experience I saw what the teacher saw before he discussed the trees. Any way just my opinion and we about those. Richard |
|
|
|
|
| Thread Tools | |
| Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads
|
||||
| Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
| On Art And Bonsai | designguy | General | 10 | 10-Aug-2007 06:51 AM |
| Artistry In Bonsai: A Simpleton's View | bonsaial1 | Articles | 30 | 11-Apr-2007 08:22 PM |
| GSBF-North Bonsai Pin Collection | TreeBay | General | 9 | 15-Feb-2006 12:31 PM |
| JAL World Bonsai Contest Revived | TreeBay | Contests | 0 | 3-Feb-2002 08:22 PM |
Linear Mode
