Grow-Box Trees Need Trim or Do They?

Lesley

I created grow boxes for many of my potensia this spring and boy do they love it! I have branch extension and explosive grow on many of my small and medium sized subjects. I have been pinching here and there but I'm trying to get better trunks.

Do I trim or style or just let them grow? Should I chop trunks for taper / new leaders? I did this to a Zelkova last year, I got new main branches right away and this year some of the new branches have shot out two to three feet.

I was hoping Rip would see this and give some guidance! Anyone else with opinions would be welcome too!

Thanks!

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Ladybug

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Bonsainut

Lesley,
Sounds like we are talking about deciduous trees, eh?
If so what I like to do is midsummer defoliate. Then trim out unwanted branching.

The rest of the young and supple branches are wired loosely. Bringing them down, but bend from the base, don’t make the rainbow shape.

Put some interest in these by a couple of bends, the first few inches is all you care about right here. Let the branching continue to grow wild. This will promote a thickening of the main branches you just trained and will add some girth to the trunk.

Watch for wire scarring. You may have to adjust. Some species will hold its shape very quickly when growing fast. guy wire can help too.

In the fall after leaf drop clean up the tree and unwire. In the spring cut back the new branching to 2 or 3 nodes. Spring starts it all over!

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Keep growing,---'Nut



Lethal Use of Farce

FredL

Leesa, I have been heavily influenced by John Naka's "Bonsai Techniques I" as well as pictures and comments from Glenn (Ripsgreentrees) and have been cutting my young trees back very severely, usually at a slant, frequently initially at the first bud or branch. Many of my trees, I plant at an angle to the ground. I use both grow beds and grow boxes.

I have been very pleased with the results. It seems that very fast growing young trees form very interesting lower trunks with good taper in this way and branches shoot out very quickly. I am planning to devote several years just to the development of good trunks, nebari and roots with no attention to branches until I have "stumps" that look like the ones I see collected from the growing fields in Japan in articles in "Bonsai Today". From the rate of growth I've seen so far, it appears to me that it will be at least 5 years or more to produce decent material ready for initial styling from the sort of material I have easily available and I have a mind set of ten years to produce first rate material from seedlings. This is based on what I have observed over the past two years with a large number of seedlings (Hackberry, Amur Maple, Persimmon, Hawthorne and others), very young material (Hophornbeam, Wild Black Cherry, Eastern Red Cedar and others) and older material of indifferent quality (Winged Elm, Wild Plum, Shortleaf Pine and others). I am 2 years into this and, as I said, very encouraged at the early results.

I had planned to wait until next Spring to send in my first pictures, but my son, who's not much interested in Bonsai but is developing an interest in photography, has volunteered to help me so, perhaps I will screw up my courage and send in a few pictures. I have been reluctant to send in pictures, even after a couple of very kind forum members showed me how to do it. Just didn't like the idea of having my trees criticized long before I thought they were ready to be considered decent pre-bonsai specimens. When they are ready for initial styling, I think the comments from this forum can be very helpful. Before that point, I'm not too sure I'm very excited about what I expect will be termed "honest criticism of poor material".

I have been told that I will never develop anything of any value taking this approach. It was kind of discouraging, but, after going back and looking at "Bonsai Techniques I" again, it all came back to me why I was doing what I'm doing. I just don't believe that it's impossible, or even particularly difficult, to produce pre-bonsai material under controlled conditions from seedlings or other young material. It appears that Naka doesn't either, if his book is any indication.

As I said earlier, I have come to believe that the key is encouraging rapid growth combined with repeated severe pruning back once or twice a year over several years. If you can get Naka's book, it illustrates what I mean in a very clear way. Especially the section on growing Japanese Black Pines from seedlings.

Good luck to you, Fred

FredL

Woops! Meant to say Leslie. Sorry.

Fred

Lesley

You guys are right on! I did put mostly deciduous varieties in three small grow beds and conifers in 1. I also have a dozen grow boxes/tubs too! I like your ideas Bonsainut and will try some light wiring for shape and remove some unwanted branches. FredL it is a little discouraging to think that some might think this is not a good way to get material. I plan on using these for shohin and medium sized trees and I thought it would be better to try and control growth rather than whittle away at a nursery specimen that has poor taper and branch placement! I'm in my early 50's and I think I still have some time to see what develops, besides it's fun! I do want to get Naka's books! They sound like good texts for a foundation to build on. I too am just getting used to photography with a digital camera and I have taken pics but I'm having trouble posting without my husband's help. I need to read the photoshop manual to compress the shots I want to post and I haven't had time.

I'm the member that posted the vacation disaster where I lost 40% of my trees. Interestingly, the trees in grow boxes and beds thrived!!!! The shohin and trees in bonsai pots dried up in the 104 heat and I'm still waiting to see if they make it! (Must've been the larger container and soil composition)

Lessons, Lessons, Lessons - still learning and loving this art!

Sorry for the lengthy message!

Thanks again!

__________________
Ladybug

Bonsainut

Wow, somebody likes my ideas.

Shewwwooo! I was beginning to lose confidence after all those Walter threads.

Good luck lesleybug!

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Keep growing,---'Nut



Lethal Use of Farce

Craig Cowing

Most of what I have growing in boxes is collected material. Most of these trees don't need to develop a nebari or trunk, but an upper trunk and branches. I thought I'd get quicker branch development if I had them in boxes. I have, for instance, a collected crabapple from Maine that I stumped last spring. I cut it off at an angle so that one new shoot could be the continuation of the trunk, and the other could be the first branch. In the second year, the new leader (which is now almost 1/2 inch thick at the base) and the first branch are healing over the cut at a remarkable rate. I expect the cut to be healed over in another two years at most, and of course the leader and branch will be good and thick. I am letting the leader grow unchecked, but the first branch I have cut back so it doesn't get too thick. I am doing this with other deciduous species as well--Red Maple, Red Oak, Sugar Maple (saw FredL's post on this, I haven't given up yet!) and other odds & ends. A good experience in patience, waiting to get those trees into pots.

Craig Cowing
NY
Zone 5b/6a Sunset 37

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I'm not finished yet, neither are my trees.