give a bonsai n00b some advice?

chartreuseboots

hullo, awhile back i was thinking about getting a bonsai tree, i mentioned it to my mom and she got me one for christmas... it wasn't quite what i was hoping for. apparently she missed the part where i said indoor bonsai. oh well, i guess i'll use this one for practice. if i succeed in not killing it i think i'd like to get a serissa (uber cute!).

well, the lady she bought it from told her i should find a sheltered place to keep it outdoors for the winter, and i have. so it has lived on the back porch until now. (it's some type of juniper btw) i just got a cute bonsai pot, and i'd like to repot it, perhaps trim it too.

so i've brushed off the snow and brought it inside for some pictures so i could get some advice on how to trim it:
http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/...tto/bonsai1.jpg

i think it's kinda sad looking.
are they supposed to have that weird c shape?
how do i trim that? if i lop off the curvy part do ya think i could get a more 'normal tree shape' outta it?
i think i'd like to repot it leaning to the side more, so the branches are parallel with the ground and the trunk is all slanty, ya know?
what kind of soil should i use? i've got some leftover orchid soil, and gravel for planted aquariums that i could put on the bottom... would that work? or do i have to get fancy 'bonsai dirt'?

the frog was somthing i had laying around, and i thought it'd be cute but... i think it's gotta go. it makes the tree seems so tiny! well, it is tiny. but it's not supposed to look it! lol. i'm gunna try to make my own lil' figurine. maybe a fawn? i know i have some clay somewhere........
the moss seems kinda stringy. maybe i should replace it with some semi-aquatic moss i had leftover from my aquarium?
i think it would look better but i'm not sure if it would survive the cold... it's expensive moss so maybe i'll hold off till spring.



so please help me out?!

ps- my cat just tried to eat the bonsai. nom nom nom. lol! good thing it's prickly. =^-^=

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Cathie

There's nothing to trim yet - plant it in the ground for a few years once the ground's thawed out, it's the fastest way to grow it, and between now and then, you'll have learned what to do when the time comes. Right now it's just a barely rooted cutting in a pot. The C shape will get lost in the shuffle of growth over time - Juniper procumbens (which is what it is) naturally cascades, but must first grow up and out some more. Once that happens, you'll have lots more options for styling, and will be able to see the individual personality of the (then) tree.

chartreuseboots

i don't think i want it to get bigger... can't i make it a mini bonsai or somthing? and if i planted it in the ground i would prolly forget about since i won't even live here by the time i'd need to dig it up. if all goes well i won't even live here next fall.

Cathie

The idea is to have it develop mature lines, taper, etc. You can still at any time trim it back to remain small, but it's a good idea to first let it grow out some, or you'll always have what looks like a cutting in a pot, rather than serious looking tree. There are great books (and some sites, partic. Japanese ones) on miniature (mame) bonsai, and you might want to look at some of them to understand what I mean.

chartreuseboots

i thought the idea of a mini bonsai was to limit it's root growth so much that it never gets any taller than a few inches? that way it starts to look like an old tree even though it only a few inches tall? by giving it more root space wouldn't it just get bigger without showing age? i know i'm probably wrong, i'm just trying to work it out in my head.

bluh. and here i thought this would be less complicated than my planted aquariums... well at least i won't need to generate co2 right?


ps- this is a lil off topic but, here's the little fawn figurine (lil bird too) i made:
http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/...to/DSCF1019.jpg
i think it would look really cute under my bonsai don't you? i'll need to figure out a way to weather proof it first though. it seems a little crude right now but i think it will be better painted; plus it's so small you wouldn't see most of those flaws in person (it's about 1 1/2 inches). making it was a sculptors nightmare since the only clay i has was almost rock hard. so i soaked it, and what i could get off the block o' clay was waaay too wet, like the constancy of plaster. so since sculpting tools would rip it to shreds at that constancy, and my finger are too big, i had to use a wet paintbrush to sculpt it. not too bad though right?

ElGringo

Not nessecarily; regular pinching of top growth helps keep them small. You trim the roots mostly to encourage the growth of new, fine feeder roots closer to the trunk, which supply the tree with inorganic nutrients and water. If you were to 'limit' root growth, i.e. by letting it get potbound, then it would be detremental to the bonsai.

The older a tree gets, the more the bark flakes, the more apparent surface roots become and the greater the taper becomes (thicker at the base than at the top). Its not always size that dictates age. Its always best to reduce a tree down into a bonsai than to try and grow one up into a bonsai, if you understand.

I used to ferment sugar in a drinks bottle, capture the gas in a balloon stretched over the top, then 'puff' it into the aquarium under the lid. That and pure clay cats litter instead of gravel, and incandescent light (the ones used as 'normal' lightbulbs in rooms, and my aqua plants grew pretty well!

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Richard

chartreuseboots

thanks for the bonsai advice but your aquatic plant methods are ineffective at best. the amount of co2 you'd get dissolved into your water by doing that would be insignificant; and not steady enough to really aid in photosynthesis. add some co2 resistant tubing and a diffuser and you'd get enough co2 for a small tank. and the effectiveness of cat litter as gravel is only silightly better than plain aquarium gravel. you'd be much better off with the gravel/sand mixes coated with micro nutrients that are made for planted aquariums (i use ecocomplete). and that lighting isn't really good for growing anything. you probably got by by having hearty fully aquatic species who where getting some real light though a window. sorry to be a aqua-gardener-know-it-all. it's just how i am. *^_^* if you are still keeping a planted tank check out http://www.plantedtank.net/ they can give you some really solid advice. plus some of the tanks on there are really awesome! not quite as good as a master like Takashi Amano 'o course but some are close.

okay that was TOTALLY off topic. back to bonsai....

as for my tree i'm really not sure what i'll do with it now. if i plant it outside i won't be able to take it with me when i leave. if i just put it in another pot it won't grow. seems like too much work, i just wanted a happy little plant for my desk not some masterwork bonsai. maybe i should 'set it free' in the yard, let it turn into a normal tree, and go back to my aquariums.

JohnG

Hello CB... perhaps rather than worrying about styling or what to do with the tree...you should spend a little time learning to take care of it. If a tree is not healthy and happy no amount of styling will make a difference. Good care is perhaps the most over looked aspect of the hobby by new folks. Learn to water...learn to tell if water is needed or not...learn to fertilize...once your tree begins to grow...learn to pinch...determine where your tree does best in your yard...how much sun does it need to flourish...when its time, learn to repot. Most importantly have patients...without it your tree will most likely suffer.

It is very difficult to offer advice to people new to bonsai...you are excited and want to do something...anything...typically the material you end up with is very juvenile and not really ready for the kinds of things newbies want to do.

As difficult and boring as it may seem...I promise that if you take your time and learn to care for your trees first and then along the way begin to develop an understanding of training and styling techniques you will develop as hobbyist much faster and kill far fewer trees.

Welcome to the wonderful world of bonsai...I wish you much success!
John

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Bonsai Journeys

Cathie

It'll grow if you don't put it into the little pot, but a larger one, but wider, and with a little piece of tile or something similar under the middle of the rootball to encourage lateral root growth vs downwards. Only later on when it's ready to be displayed would you use the 'right' size bonsai pot (we call the larger pots training pots or boxes).