Gallery Ratings

FredL

Why, thank you, Ron. Sounds like somewhere between a 2 and a 4.

And, Ron, really, it's nothing personal. It's just that frequently what you have to say just doesn't make alot of sense to me and it frustrates me. I guess you feel that you have responded to my point. I continue to feel frustrated that you have not responded to it at all. Or even understood it.

But, what the hey. As you so often remind us, these fine points that I labor over don't really seem so important after a few beers between friends.

Best wishes, Fred

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agraham

the ratings don't really mean anything ....they could,but that would be judgemental

i agree with fred.....some guidelines on ratings would make them more than an exercise in flattery,an easy method to up one's post count or a "gilroy was here" checkoff.

matt....with all the effort you put into this forum,this is one part of it that is completely meaningless as it is set up ...even tho i admit to posting a few gratuitous ratings myself

respectfully,

andy

FredL

Matt, thank you for your very responsive reply. However, I have to admit to being disatisfied with it.

It seems like a defense of vagueness and, even more so, a defense of "Grade Inflation".

I think that grading trees and commenting on them in the Gallery provides a wonderful learning opportunity for everybody. It is, to me, a wonderful concept. I do not think that as presently performed it is executed very well. I think there is a tremendous upside potential to this concept, but it clearly needs constructive evaluation and refinement. The fact that some, maybe many of the participants in Bonsaitalk like it just fine the way it is indicates not that it's really very good as we see it today but that there are plenty of participants on Bonsaitalk that are complacent and intellectually lazy.

Getting accurate and clear feedback on what we are doing is fundamental to improvement. I really question whether the current process does much of that. Whether people claim to like it or not.

As an execise, I wonder how many people would say that the present system is perfect and how many would say that it could be improved, even just a tiny bit. And, if it could be improved, how would they do it.

We have so many arguments over issues that are rather peripheral to improving our Bonsai skills. This Gallery grading process gives us an opportunity to discuss actual trees in a way that could be quite enlightening. I'd love to see the trees we submit become an area that draws more attention than such earth shaking issues as whether or not Bonsai is cruel to trees. Maybe if I could figure out what the grades meant, I'd be willing to comment on them. And, others, as well.

Well, I have a couple of other suggestions as well but, if this rather obvious one can't get any traction it seems pretty unlikely that my other ones will go anywhere either.

Fred

TreeBay

You'd need to pass a test before you could rate trees.

Regards,

Matt

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agraham

a simple statement about what you like about a tree and where you see improvements could be made would probably be of more benefit ....oh well,who knows?

andy

Carl_Bergstrom

Actually, I think that somehow formalizing the process would be a brilliant way to increase the amount of confusion present and disinformation available on this forum. At least now it is completely clear that the ratings are arbitrary (though not entirely content-free).

Come on now - what fraction of the members here have put in the hours [ years] of study with the proper sources so as to have even a basic grounding in the art [ yes, art!] of tree critique?

Best regards,
Carl

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FredL

Well, Matt, I think you are joking. But, suppose you screened judges and set up a new rating called "Ratings by judges that actually have a clue about their evaluations" and created an agreed upon scale to judge against. Leave the current system in place for Ron and anybody else who doesn't care what the numbers mean so long as one is assigned. I'd love to partipate in such a system. I'd love to send in pictures; I'd love to be a judge; I'd love to discuss why ratings were given and why ratings varied. Doesn't make alot of sense to me to do any of this with the current meaningless scoring system.

Fred

FredL

Carl, you sound like a College Professor. No use in doing anything if perfection can not be achieved. In the world of work where people are held accountable for making a profit, I learned that improvement is what is important, not perfection. Pardon me if I can only offer suggestions for improvement and can not offer perfection.

Fred

gcraft

I think the point that is being missed that I am getting atleast is: put somewhat of a scale to these ratings so one may know what type of tree he or she may have or have seen compared to others. Kinda like any game that is played. Why do you score points? So you can win (a 10 or even a 6). Some people would just like to know where their tree's may fit in.
On another note:
Not mentioning any names but why do some people just have to be quick to think that what they think is best for something is the way it should be? Ive seen numerous threads over the last month or so with what i think to be just concieted fat headedness from some. Ive also seen alot more people that are willing to spend their time to give good useful information to people without any selfish comments about what they think is right.
Anyway I think a scale on the gallery ratings would also be great!
Greg