First-year JBP - candles

Hotei

In March I bought several JBP seedlings, all 12 - 16 inches and planted them in about 50/50 potting soil and pumice, in 1 to 3-gallon nursery pots, depending on their size. I fertilized them once over the summer and they have shown good growth. My advice (from this site) was to leave them alone for this year and next, not trim them, i.e. let them "bulk up" for 2 years, then cut the central leader back to the first whorl.

One thing I forgot to ask: Someone I know suggested that, when the trees start candling, to pinch off all but two of the candles. These trees have already done that once this summer, and I did pinch some back but I left some others alone.

What should I do to or about the candles and why?

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Graydon

Wow. There are entire books written on this subject so it is a little hard to explain on a post. Photos would help. I am sure someone could set you up with a good game plan from a photo or two of each.

To get some out of control growth you should feed more often than that, perhaps weekly at 1/2 strength if liquid mix.

Do they have any low branches? It all hinges on that statement. Do not pull any needles at all. Dormant buds are at the needle locations. Pull needles = no more buds. That can be bad if you need to force a branch down low.

Don't cut or pinch candles any more until you know what you are planning on doing with the trees style and size wise. At that point the road map to pruning can be established. Pinching and cutting can be a directional pruning method with pines but it is also the ramification technique. No need to ramify a pine while it is still growing out to final size.

Can you post photos?

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Ralph

I would like to offer my two cents worth on the subject for reveiw and criticism since I am also training young black pines. It is my understanding that you allow your central leader to continue to grow unrestricted as you develop your pine for growth. However, since the low branching may in time either remain primary branching, or become your new leader, it is important to maintain those branches for proper internodal spacing. Which means of course candling at the right times of year.
If I am not mistaken Brent from Evergreen is a proponent of this growth method.
I would like to hear what others, epecially those more experienced have to say on this subject.

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Emerging from winter slumber
Bonsai trees burst buds anew
Spring is upon us!


-Paul S.

bnsaijim

Pictures of another seedling pine? Egads! Don't waste the bandwidth!

Brent offers some excellent advice- seek out his blog, his archival IBC postings, etc...

The blog especially has begun to finally clarify things he's been talking abut for years- a picture is definitely worth a thousand words in this case.

The best advice was already given by Ralph. Develop a vision - even if its not the right one... and from that develop a plan. Then you can ask what technique to use. That's why your question was so hard to answer- it depends on what your plan is and where the branches are... If it is a sacrifice branch do nothing. That is unless branches at your primary whorl are weakening...

You may want to use these as learning tools- don't expect them to be masterpieces. If you are lucky they might be decent bonsai.

Heres some thoughts on how to proceed...

1. What style and how big? What you will do next year and the coming years will vary greatly depending on whether the answer is formal upright or cascade, Mungo-huge or wispy mame-accent size...

2. Draw or find pictures of where you want to be someday.

3. Decide what needs to be done to get there- if you want a gnarled twisty pine you need to introduce these curves early on. If you want to use the "natural growth" method Brent expounds then free growth is the primary goal.

4. Rough out the steps, planning no more than one major onslaught per year. I will usually have a 5 year plan that is mostly development- working on the foundation and a 10 year plan that is much looser in nature that approaches a final form.

4. Write all this down. Save it for future reference so when you're scratching your head next year asking what you should be doing you already know.

5. Make note as to how a technique worked. Track the health and responses of the tree. Update and change your plan as your knowledge grows.

We can offer much better advice if you can say "here is where I am" and this is where I want to be.

From your first post I would say continue keeping busy doing nothing. Learn the care and horticulture first. Learn about the techiniques and when to apply them; learn what teh expected result wil be. I'd get Dan Barton's book as it contains an excellent summary of all the different techniques...

Good luck and patience!


jim

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Jim Stone
Seki Bonsai Studio
sekibonsai.com
Santa Fe, TX

Hotei

Thanks; this helps. Regarding low branches, yes, I selected them for their low branches, because I have in mind a bonsai that is gnarled, twisting and low to the ground. Obviously the thicker the trunk the better. On the other hand, I don't want to wait 50 years before I have a bonsai to enjoy.

Does this change any of what has been said?

Under any circumstance, I take it that the consensus is that pinching candles is a bad idea at this stage, so I will leave them alone at least for another growing season. I will also check Brent's blog and check on the Dan Barton Book.

bnsaijim

You should be enjoying it now at each stage of the transformation... Brent's method will give you flowing curves- not gnarly twists. That will have to come with wiring. You will probably have to wait until about January to do this. This assumes that you have not done any major work so far - no major root pruning when you potted them up?

I would hunt down some copper wire in the meantime. You can and probably should use guages that seem too big - this will be a formational wiring- all about function not beauty. Repost when the time seems right- right before spring is going to break in your area and I'll give you more details if you like.

A bit longer for candle work is fine- it's not a "bad idea" so much as it's not necessary at this stage of development. Meanwhile- look at how the needles and buds grow in the different areas... from tree to tree... you'll note differences in vigor as the tree ages.

You can continue to fertilize - probably through the winter. Pines are "sippers"- they like consistent feeding- that's why many people use organics/poo balls- slow release. This will help get the growth you want.

jim

__________________
Jim Stone
Seki Bonsai Studio
sekibonsai.com
Santa Fe, TX