First step with Kiyo Hime?

Neild

JGS,
I had not considered thread grafting, nor have I ever done this procedure. I have read a little about it though. That may be an option.

Dav4,
I had considered the airlayer option, especially after viewing a very nice kyo hime clump in the gallery yesterday.

I beleive the root stock to be your basic acer palmatum.
Maybe I can nick the base to get a couple new shoots this spring, to be certain. This way if I do air layer, I could have a nice kyo hime clump or shohin on it's own roots as well as a nice trunk for a palmatum.

Thoughts on this anyone?

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Jgs bonsai

Neild:

I have done the thread graft procedure many times. It is very simple and this is the right time to do it. The new thin branches you have on your tree are just right and it is hard to get them to grow on this variety after it is begun as a bonsai. You could do one or two of the grafts in non-critical areas this year to see if you like this method. Then you could leave a few of the long shoots on the tree to use next year if you decide that the thread grafts will help. I have a Kiyohime maple that has the same color difference at the graft. After a few years as a bonsai it has greatly reduced and it no longer is a distraction to the design.

JGS

Neild

JGS,
Would you mind terribly posting me a picture, or any progress pictures of yours? Sorry to put you on the spot. Just wanted to see a tree that may help me in my decisions.

I did a little pruning this evening, but really just the dead stuff left over from teh deer's lunch. The dead wood is pretty extensive in the top of the tree, however there is new growth surrounding it.

Thanks!

Bruce Winter

You are fortunate the graft is not a problem, so far. In many cases after a certain number of years it becomes too obvious due to different growth rates. If you layer then you eliminate this potential problem down the line and will have an ideal nebari if all goes well. The apex will probably die at some point but another can be grown.

Neild

Bruce,
I am thinking layering is the direction I will go. As you said, I stand a better shot at good nebari, and I will also have 2 trees if both make it of course.

Incidentally, how big is too big to layer? I ask because I have some nice elm stumps with large shoots in a yard near my house and was given permission to take as many as I want.

Bruce Winter

Neil........I've not heard of a limit. I layer trunks up to 6" every spring.
Good luck.

Jgs bonsai

Neild:

I have got the photos you requested. This type of maple is hard to get to ramify which is why I mentioned the grafting. My tree was very tall when I got it. The first thing I did was air layer it. I have included a photo of the air layered top of the tree I got. The layer formed good roots in a short time. I was able to remove the layer in the fall after starting it in the early summer. As you can see neither the air layered part or the tree in the bonsai pot have very much ramification. The tree in the bonsai pot is grafted. I have included a macro photo of the area of the graft. The graft is visible but there is no bump. There is only a slight color change. I have also attached a photograph of the tree taken in 2003 with the leaves on it. This is not a good photo but you can get a idea of the development over the last 2 years. The branches grow longer but don't seem to form secondary branches very fast.

JGS

Attached Images

	kiyohime 101203 1.jpg (23.0 KB, 20 views)
	kiyohime maple airlayer enhanced 1.jpg (11.9 KB, 16 views)
	kiyohime maple 2a.jpg (14.5 KB, 23 views)

Jgs bonsai

Neild: I left out the close up of the graft. Here it is.

JGS

Attached Images

kiyohime maple graft.jpg (13.1 KB, 22 views)

Jgs bonsai

Neild:

Here are some pictures of thread grafts I have done with trident maples. This tree was grafted to improve the roots. I grafted about 6 or 7 seedlings on to it. All of them took. This photo is after two years. I will cut the tops of the grafted trees off when I repot this spring. I have never thread grafted the kiyohime maples but I have done the normal Acer palmatum. Since the graft of your tree looks like it has taken so well I don't think you would have any problem with the thread grafts.

When you do your air layer if you want to get two trees you will need to have growing branches on both parts. I think you will have good bonsai from both parts but you will have a long time developing them due to the ramification problem.

JGS

Attached Images

	trident maple 1.jpg (20.0 KB, 19 views)
	trident maple graft.jpg (23.1 KB, 18 views)