Elm feeding

top_cat

Could I ask a question about feeding elms. I've just acquired an established Chinese Elm (Ulmus parvifoli) which was exposed to some frost a couple of weeks ago so its lost all its leaves. I'm thinking that I need to give it some feed to promote leaf growth and give it a bit of a helping hand.

Craig Coussins in his 'bonsai for beginners' book suggested "Feed once a week throughout spring and summer and once a month in winter. Outdoor elms need a high-nitrogen feed in spring and a balanced feed during mid-season.."

As the tree has no leaves am I best giving it a high-nitrogen feed now? I have Rapeseed but I believe this is a more balanced feed which I could use in mid-season.

Thanks

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Aaron_K

Hi Top Cat,

Normally, if a Chinese Elm is going to lose its leaves, it will do so in late autumn to winter time, as is the case for deciduous trees. If your's has lost its leaves subsequent to the frost of a few weeks back, that might suggest that the roots suffered some damage as a result.

It might be an idea to post a picture of the tree and provide a little more information about it. I'm in Northwest Kent, so not a million miles away from you. Both of my Chinese Elms were kept outside over winter, although they were in a sheltered position for the most part, and are putting out lots of new growth.

The first thing you need to do, is scratch off a tiny bit of the bark on the branches and at the base of the trunk. If you see a green cambium layer, your tree is alive, although probably a bit worse for wear due to the frost.
If this is the case, DO NOT fertilize the tree, as the chances are that it suffered root damage and by feeding it, you will "burn" new shoots with the chemical fertilizer. Just leave it be, water when necessary and it should recover.

If you do not see a green layer under the bark, then I'm afraid you have yourself a dead tree my friend.

Fingers crossed for you!!

All the best

Aaron

top_cat

Thanks for the reply Aaron.

The Elm had been re-potted prior to the frost, so I'm not sure if the roots would have been even more susceptible to the frost.

Bit of info about the tree; it stands about 2 feet tall and it has an open soil which mainly looks like Akadama. I've only just purchased it but the seller has said that if the tree does not respond or I'm unhappy then I can take it back, so I thought it would definitely worth giving it a go. I'm hoping that it will be alright as I think it will be a lovely bonsai in a couple of years. There is green cambium layer on some of the branches not checked them all though (didn't want to scratch it to much).

Here are a couple of pictures of the elm. There were a lot of brown shrivelled leaves on the tree so I have gentle removed these dead ones. As you can see from the picture there are a few leaves left but I can't see any new ones growing.

It’s been suggested to me that 'superthrive' might help the tree? I've never used it, but it’s meant to help with stressed trees.

At the moment I am keeping the tree outside, I’ve been told that from spring to autumn Chinese elms should stay outside. To give you an idea of the climate the temperature is 6/42 at the moment and tomorrow is forecast as Max:11/51 Min:7/44. Should I bring the tree inside?



PS. sorry about the picture quality, I haven't got a proper setup at the moment.

Attached Images

	leafless-chinese-elm-2.jpg (65.1 KB, 115 views)
	leafless-chinese-elm-branch2.jpg (61.4 KB, 55 views)
	leafless-chinese-elm-branch.jpg (63.1 KB, 58 views)

Aaron_K

Hi Top Cat,

If you have green in the cambium, thats a good sign. It means the tree is alive, or that part of it is at any road. If the tree was repotted just prior to the frost, it will not have helped it, as the roots that would have been healing and putting out finer shoots will quite possibly been damaged.

Bringing the tree inside now won't really be of any benefit, as the warmer weather is on the way, and its probably best to let nature run its course and not disturb the tree futher by changing its environment.

The soil medium you have it in will help the roots regrow, as akadama allows for good aeration and hydration. As for Superthrive, some people swear by it, other people have come to the conclusion that it doesn't do a darn thing. I know I read that someone on the forum had a friend that asked for the ingredients of Superthrive (under US Law are at liberty to do so). Suffice to say, they never received a copy of the chemical constituents of the product.

Studying the photos I think I can see what appear to be two new shoots. I could be wrong as the photo isn't too clear on them, but if that is the case, your tree is attempting to make a come back. Keep it outside, in a sheltered position (protect from cold north winds), but allow it to have a good amount of light. Give it a few weeks and it should be well on the mend.

If your tree does survive, I would give it better protection next winter. Either bring it inside or if you want to give it a dormancy period, move it into a garden shed. As it will be out of leaf, it will require no light as the tree will be dormant. Water enough to keep the soil moist. Keep an eye out for critters though, as mice are quite prone to digging around in the pots for things to eat, including your roots!

It's a nice tree, with some great potential. A few years spent refining the ramification will improve it still further.

Good luck. Still got my fingers crossed for you.

Kindest regards,

Aaron

top_cat

Thanks for your help. I think there may be some new leaves growing, I've left on some of the old leaves even though they are brown at the ends but have removed the ones that are completely brown. Should I also remove the part-brown leaves? (see picture)

I just sorted out getting some superthrive, couldn't find it locally so got it from eBay.

I have just watered the tree and used a mixture of 2 litres of water to 1 millilitre of superthrive (which is about 1 tiny drop). Does that sound about right? If so then this bottle will last me a lifetime!

Thanks

Attached Images

brownleaf.jpg (25.5 KB, 54 views)

rockm

For what it's worth, "feeding" or fertlizing a leafless tree will not promote leafing. Trees produce their own food WHEN IN LEAF. Fertilizer provides only the building blocks that the tree uses to make its own food. Providing those blocks with no leaves is useless, since the tree cannot use them.

Your tree lost its leaves not because it entered dormancy, but because it was shocked by the frost. Dormancy is not temperature induced and therefore simple exposure to cold temperatures for a night or two won't induce a dormancy.

You tree will most likely recover and begin pushing new growth. Fertlize once than new growth has opened for the best results.

Skip the Superthrive. It is useless, expensive and basically a scam.

pootsie

Duh ... Hey TC!

Nice potential in this tree!

I agree with RockmSockm here -- Superthrive is a Supercon. Whie it wasn't scientific, I performed an experiment that convinced me Superthive ain't what it claims to be.

pootsie

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Bonsai Barry

Hope your tree lives, Top Cat. I'd love to add it to my collection.

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jeremy_norbury

Top Cat

I don't live so far away - just the other side of the North Sea and I had EXACTLY the same thing happen to me. Mine were in my shed during the really cold weather but then when all that snow fell they were outside again...

I have two Chinese Elms that have done exactly what yours did.

Another one is kind of half-unhealthy and a fourth lost leaves but now has buds ready to break.

Some seedlings in the ground were similarly affected.

I'll let you know how mine are going (you show me yours, I'll show you mine...)

Jerry
Amsterdam

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