Chinese or Japanese, Who Does it Right?

bonsaial1

Penjing. Bonsai. Who are the real artists? Or did the Literati have their heads screwed on the best. What has been the biggest influence on your designs in bonsai? Are the Chinese designs too loose, or are the Japanese designs too tight? Could the two cultures be combined somehow into a new catagory? Maybe "Jingsai"?

Bonsaial

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bonsaial1

I voted Japanese. I like tight! But the literati really influence my work alot. Check past posts and you will see that when I get in a bind on a virtual, there is bunjin-gi influence. The literati style always seems to calm. I need alot of that in my life. AK

Carl_Bergstrom

Who do it right?

That's like "Who wrote good music, Bach or Beethoven?"

Who has influenced my work?

Thus far, mostly Japanese styling, because that is far and away what I have seen and read the most of. It seems to me that Chinese styles are badly under-represented in the English-language literature. I'd love to see that change, because there is an incredible wealth of artistic ideas there in Chinese penjing, most of which I know very little about.

There may be another reason that Japanese styles have such a strong influence in my work. Compared to something like Lingnan school of penjing, Japanese bonsai is relatively formal, stylized, and codified. There are nice guidelines or even rules for how to style a tree. Think about "broom style" - not to belittle the artistic aspects of this style, but the form is much more tightly constrained. I think this helps when beginning to work with any art form. Lingnan school "big tree" style to me seems to be much more open. Too open for someone like me to be able to come in a adequately style elegant trees right off the bat. To put another way, it helps me tremendously to have guidelines "first branch, second branch, third branch, etc."

Perhaps the rules and guidelines are all there for penjing as well; perhaps this artform is as tightly constrained as Japanese bonsai. It may be that I just don't know these rules, because I've read relatively little in English (I've read four books on penjing compared to probably 40 books and twice as many magazines on bonsai) about them.

I could ramble on and on here, but I seem to be doing exactly that - rambling rather aimlessly. So I'll wrap it up by simply saying that I would to start developing my artistic understanding of Chinese forms, and I would be extremely grateful for any suggestions people might have about how to go about doing so.

Best regards,
Old Mister

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In love with trees

bonsaial1

Wagner.

bonsaial1

All right. Who voted for the sticks? You must come forward and recieve your punishment, banishment from the forum's till you see the way...

Carl_Bergstrom

I didn't vote for sticks, I voted for twigs. Anyone can put a stick in a pot, but it takes a real genius from the Americas to put a twig in a mallsai pot and not notice that looks like crap.

So banish away. But keep the apostrophes out of your plurals, for crying out loud.

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In love with trees

Treebeard

I've sat on the fence.

On one hand I like the formalised neat perfect Japanese styles, but at the same time the looser more informal relaxed Chinese styles are very appealing too.

I see it like this: The Japanese styles are "stylised representations" of trees, and the Chinese styles are more what trees actually look like.

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"Do not be hasty, that is my motto"
-JRR Tolkien, The Two Towers.
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christopherguise.co.uk

stevehtx

I personally prefer a wilder look and have found that the Chinese trees show this better than the Japanese trees which tend to be more structured in their look and feel.

But I don't feel that it is a matter of who does it right. Its a matter of culture and perception of the world. The Chinese view the world a certain way and their trees reflect that view. Same with the Japanese. I saw some trees from Indonesia the other day that looked rather different than either Chinese or Japanese trees.

Your view of the world and perception of self dictates your style of tree. I like trees that look blasted by the elements and have sat on a mountain for 500 years. I virtually never do trees that are informal or formal upright with nice balanced foliage and a peaceful look. That's just me. But that doesn't make me right or wrong, just a practitioner who favors a certain style of tree - a certain look or feel.

I do not think that we should look at bonsai from the viewpoint that only one is the correct way (usually Japanese) and that everything should try to conform to that. As long as the basic premise of bonsai is still there - a tree in a pot manipulated in a fashion that emulates trees in nature - then its okay that the Chinese trees, Japanese trees, Vietnamese trees, European trees and, yes, our very own American trees look different.

It's all about personal expression anyway and if you are only allowed to express yourself in the manner of one culture, then you aren't really expressing yourself.

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Thanks

Steve Delaune
Houston, Texas

bonsaial1

OMC, Sorry's man's. I just keep's worki'n on that Jose' Alberto Award's. I figure that;s if I can's get enough punctuation's in here,,,, I will be a shoe's in for the next award's.

Regard's Al's Keppler's