To center or not to center that is the question

Misspeled_Name

I prefer the off centered view, it adds a lot of character to the tree and display. I think you could even get away with placing it to the left more. When centered it looks to uniform. The off centered view seems to complement the jin aswell.

- Misspeled_Name

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FlyBri

Very good point Will, and one that was nagging at me also. I've already done the PhotoShopping you mentioned, as well as a virt of the tree a little further off centre. I'll post them if you like...

[EDIT] I hope it doesn't offend, but I decided to go ahead and post the pics with equal 'airspace' on either side of the stand. (The framing of the pictures still does not match - the second seems to have been taken somewhat closer to the tree.)[EDIT]

Fly.

Attached Images

	W.Pall's_Juni_Centred_1.jpg (72.5 KB, 30 views)
	W.Pall's_Juni_Centred_2.jpg (68.9 KB, 28 views)

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robert1955

Door # 1



Peace
Bob

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bonsaial1

For me, I would have rather seen the tree pushed to the right in the pot. I would try to center the weight in the pot, and then center the pot on the table.

Now, since the tree is planted where it is, the first photo looks like a haphazard placing of the pot since it is so subtle. I prefer the pot centered in this configuration also.

Al Keppler

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taipan(deceased)

A chance to offer Walter Pall advice...Can't pass this up!

I like the first photograph with the tree slightly off centre...As Bri says it could even go a little further to the right of the table...

For some reason it places the emphasis on the tree and not the position on the table....

Beautiful tree by the way Walter....

Never thought I'd be jealous of foreign gas stations...

Happy growing
Tai

Ian_Homer

Walter,

What a fantastic tree.

Firstly, the position of the tree in the pot - off centred to the right - is ideal in my eye, since this balances the greater "mass" of the deadwood on he left.

Wills point and Flybri's ammended pictures then confirm to me the better option. Something about the original second photograph was bugging me, and yes it was the close proximity of the right side of the picture to the stand.

Photographs give you an "edge" to compare against the composition, which in reality, either in general display, exhibition or contest, the human eye never sees. It would be interesting to take the same tree in a "tokonoma" setting and see if the majority still agree with the off-centred placement on the stand.

Take away that restrictive edge, then the centred option on the stand looks far better.

Hence, that would be my choice.

Best Regards,
Ian.

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Walter_Pall

Will and Fly,

I took great care to NOT center the tree in the photograph. This is very important for me. It is like trying NOT to center a tree in a pot. I usually take great care to frame my picutures. Sometimes I add space to make sure the tree is NOT balanced.
It drives me crazy when I submit such a picture to a magazine or a gallery and they center the tree afterwards. I bet you when I pesent my pictures to the World Comptetition they will center them.
Fly, it is OK to do this for the purpose of discussion though, but I don't want to get caught to have overseen that the tree was in the center. It certainly was not an oversight on my part to put it out of center.
I try to find the direction of the movment of the tree and make sure it ALWAYS is centered slightly OFF that didrection on a picture. I have not invented this. You can read it in any good book about phtography. I am participating in tow photography forums. There ist is considered very amateurish to center the object.

Howard,

It try to unbalance most of my trees on purpose all the time. Balanced trees like they are being taught in general make me fall asleep. I will unbalance a tree on purpose to get dramatic movement. Then I balance it slightly with the poisition in the pot. Then it often is still unbalanced. But it does not matter, because a bonsai is all about presentation. I make sure there is enough space on the direciton the tree goes. Thus I create DYNAMIC BALANCE. When positioning a tree on an exhibit I make sure it is never in the middle of the space. There is always more space on the side of the major direction of the tree. I never exhibit in a tokonoma because a tokonoma is not part of my culture.
I drive old-timers crazy by telling them to unbalance their trees to make them alive. I think that the overwhelming majority of bonsai are way over-balanced.
I grew up in an environment where such things were discussed on the breakfast table.

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TreeBay

It's a little weird isn't it?

Here we have one 'rule' saying, "Never plant the tree in the exact center of the pot!" and there another one saying "Always center the tree on the stand!" and another one that says "Always hang the scroll 1" off the centerline" and it all makes my head hurt.

There is a suggestion in one of the traditional Japanese garden manuals suggesting that the fallen leaves in a tea garden should be swept by an old man or a young boy, because either one is likely to overlook a few, making it look much more natural.

Walter that's a really exceptional tree there! But the deadwood is too blunt, and the difference in the photo quality was to me more striking than the stand placement.

Regards,

Matt

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FlyBri

Gday Walter!

I didn't mean to imply that the 'un-centred' stand was an oversight on your part, and I'm sorry that I came across that way.

By placing the stand centrally in the altered photos, I hoped to show that context is as important as form when considering such arrangements. The way the tree relates to the pot, and the way the pot relates to the stand is affected by way the whole composition relates to the framing of the photograph, and the reverse could be said to be true. Everything affects everything. As such, I have proven my point by second-guessing you, and in so doing, proving myself wrong. My experiment was a success in that it failed, if you will.

Looking at the 'centred' photos, it is plain to see that #1 works better than #2, but #1 of your original photos is superior to all the rest.

It is a beautiful tree, beautifully photographed.

Thank you.

Fly.

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