Breaking the Rules

mike_p

Here's another example of a poll that needs a "None of the above" option.
Or, "I know the rules and break them when appropriate".

Mike

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RedPine

Ditto.

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RedPine

I still hold to my opinion...I have even read in old threads where our most accomplished member has the same view of these 'rules'.They were intended for designing conifers, bottom line.You can ol bull all night long if you want,elms and maples for example don't and won't work best with pointy tops and stacked pads of foliage.Often enough when I start asking questions in tune with this topic I am told to go stick those rules in a hole somehwere.My opinion was made along time ago through the compiled advice given by others and my own personal taste of what a tree should look like.I admire the old neo-classical trees,I just like the new stuff more and think non conifers look better with out the old standars is all.Just an opinion of a young fool is all.

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Aaron_K

I'm with Mike P and others on this. As I said on the thread started by Ron regarding visual speed, It is far better for a beginner to learn the "rules" and be proficient in applying them to styling a tree, before they then bend/break/push the boundaries.

In my view there is no set time period for this. Some may take a decade(s) to become adept in styling trees. Others may take only a few years. This may vary according to such factors as having a teacher, reading good literature on the subject, quality of material available (financial restraints and collection restrictions etc), time available and the individuals creative abilities.

Again, no one here is forcing anyone else to learn in a specific way or even style their trees by rigid instruction for the entire duration of their practicing of bonsai. If that was the case, bonsai would be boring as hell - because all trees in a given style would look virtually identical. What people are advocating is the quickest route for the beginner to see how a bonsai tree is "constructed", to see what helps create a pleasing and convincing bonsai. How to find the tree within the wood. Being more readily able to see what is achievable with a piece of material - seeing the end result in your mind before you hack through those unwanted branches.

If you are happy with the way your trees look, that is perfectly fine. Not everyone in bonsai does it to have masterpieces of a tree that they wish to exhibit to the world. Some people keep them, because they like trees, and giving them a pruning, feeding them, watering them and just having a little bit of nature on their window sill makes that person happy and is perfectly acceptable also.

It all depends to what degree you want to practise bonsai. If you want a tree in a pot that's OK with me and I should imagine everyone else on this forum. If you want a tree in a pot that provokes emotion, thought, admiration, awe - call it what you will - that is just fine with me.

The "rules" are there as guidelines for those that wish to learn how to create trees that provoke the above. Follow them if you so choose, ignore them if you so choose. But as I said on the other thread, the trees will be more widely accepted and "liked" by outsiders will be those trees you create that fall under the directions given in the "rules" whether you are ignorant of them or not.

All the best,

Aaron

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mike_p

Regarding the "rules", follow the advice of Yogi Berra; "When you come to a fork in the road, take it".

Mike

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Nature is perfect.
Man's attempts to improve nature,
Are imperfect.
MP@BBB Studio

There is no way to happiness. Happiness is the way
Gautama Buddha

agraham

Wes,

You're not a fool ....but there are "rules" for deciduous trees also.Even broom style has rules,ie. how thick the trunk should be in relation to the height,how much bare trunk there should be before the "broom" starts.

Informal upright decidous trees also have "rules".....no bar branches,alternating branch placement,thickness of branches in comparison to the thickness of the trunk,etc.

You know I'm the last person to say the "rules" are applicable in all circumstances and i am not a slave to them myself....I've often argued against there being RULES at all.......but it is a game of symantics.The RULES that are so slavishly adhered to by many and abhored by many others are nothing more than guidelines,generalizations.They are the result of the observations of bonsaists who have come before us about what looks(looked) best to them.A method of simplification if you will.A teaching tool.That is ALL they are....THEY ARE NOT RULES!!!!!!

BREAK 'EM......by all means .....but use them too.

When something just doesn't look right about "that tree"...think about the "rules" and see if placing that branch where the rules say will make the tree better....or see if shortening that branch 'til it's inside the "magical triangle" is all it needs......maybe the tree just needs a root grafted to the other side of the trunk to achieve balance and stability.....or the trunk needs a bit of carving to change the reverse taper ......dang "rules"

have fun y'all,

andy

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Wolfus

There are rules

Nobody told me about any rules...
I just do what looks good to my eye,,,,,,

I agree they should be regarded as guidelines rather than strict policy.

David

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bwaynef

Redpine (wes?) I don't understand exactly which of those rules you linked to should not be applied to deciduous trees. I'd love for the writer of those rules to chime in on their applicability to deciduous trees. Nowhere in them does it say to make tree x look like a pine tree. Re-read the "Pots" section and see how it can't possibly be that the rules were given solely for "constructing" conifer bonsai.

WF