Breaking the Rules - bonsaiTALK Community

4-Nov-2005

#221

Vance Wood

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Repotter

May I begin "breaking" rules as I learn them or must I wait until I learn them all?
Because I may not ever learn them all, and I can't wait to break some.

You may do what you want, when you want, in what ever way you desire, and when you are done violating the rules post a picture of your bonsai as an example of a bonsai that breaks the rules. For this challenge you must be cretain that no where in no way are any of the rules followed or your "rule breaking bonsai" will be disqualified. Oh----by the way, it must look like a bonsai and not just a bush in a pot, a stick in the mud, or a topiary. It must look like you have made some sort of effort to conform it to your understanding of what a bonsai is.

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The only finished bonsai is a dead one; me 1992 MABA Des Moines Iowa

5-Nov-2005	#222
RonMartin(deceased) Bonsai nare-do-well Join Date: Jan-2003 Location: Summerville SC Country: USA USDA Zone: 8A AHS Heat Zone: 8 Posts: 4,653	Guess I owe you guys a thanks. Reading this thread gave me an idea for a new lesson plan. Only took me a few hours to put it all together. I have titled the lesson "Da rules. Understanding them and how to go beyond them" I tried the lesson out day before yesterday at a club up north. It was received pretty well. At least I got a lot of compliments on it. Anyway thanks for giving me the idea.

5-Nov-2005

#223

Ashbarns9999

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Lifes Jouney

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ian_Homer

Hans,

There always comes a point in a thread (and this has been a long one

) when you just need to switch off. I think you have made your views and stand-point quite clearly, but there will always be others coming from a different viewpoint.

Here is my take on the matter.....

Wrong or Right, it is up to the individual to apply or "bend" the rules to the best of their ability. The inexperienced have a certain amount of ignorance, and tend to style to what pleases the eye on first sight. Those with greater knowledge and more experience learn what is possible, workable and looks better in the longer time frame that is involved in creating a higher quality Bonsai, one that can then be appreciated by their peers, who also realise how the very same rules have been adhered to - or ignored to create the finished image.

That is how we can tell the difference between a full time "Master" at the art or one who just dabbles at a part-time craft. Every now and then, a new person springs onto the Bonsai scene because they have a unique style or a new "vision" of what can be achieved by breaking the rules in certain ways. It is the very fact of them doing this, that brings them to our attention.

I'm thinking, Walter, Marco, Boon and Kevin Wilson to name a few . . . .

It has been an interesting debate and your input has been most welcome.

Best Regards,
Ian.

Ian, You have captured, exactly, my feelings on this subject. Bonsai is not a precise science but the 'rules' are there to be learned and ones interpretation should still lead to a recognisable and reasonable outcome in producing bonsai to a level most understand. I was speaking with a retired High School teacher the other day and he was amazed that rules existed for bonsai. I explained it this way. You went to college and trained for teaching, you learned the rules and techniques to prepare you to go out and give our children a good education. The guidlines/rules were laid down by the department of education. Your approach/style of teaching and that of your peers may have differed but but you all arrived at the same point, the same end, in providing a good start for the children allowing them to make informed decisions for their future. Had you not followed the 'rules' your employment would have ended. Mr. Ford agreed with me. In the world of bonsai we are allowed some movement with the rules to suit the tree but generally we stick to what we have been taught and in doing so have a pleasing end/starting result. Our children may begin lifes journey.

Kind regards Ash

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Better to procrastinate than lose sight of the objective by rash deeds.

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8-Nov-2005	#224
PatArizona Bonsai Master, in my mind Join Date: Feb-2005 Location: Back Home in Northern California Country: USA Posts: 1,800	223 (now 224) posts...and only 59 votes? I can't imagine why anything else would need to be said. It's already tooo much for me to wade through. Pat __________________ BONSAI isn't about surviving in a storm, rather, how to dance in the rain. THE ONLY WAY: Always remember, and don't ever forget, that whatever you read here is not cast in concrete... the intent of any advice is to help. In no way should you feel that I’m saying that my way is the only way…heaven forbid! I've seen far too much of the "my way or the highway" attitude in bonsai as well as in other areas of life. Pat Patterson...Bonsai in the Greater Bay Area, Northern California

12-Nov-2005

#225

Vance Wood

bonsaiTALK ArchMaster

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Quote:

Originally Posted by 007

I'm curious . . . for all those who follow the "rules", what is the incentive and motivation for doing so?

I was re-reading this thread and ran accross this question for 007 that kind of tweaked a new response from my clutered little mind.

Art. You want to get from point A to point B there are recognized ways to do that. You can deviate from the proven path and may discover new things but in the end you still want to get to point B. That's what the "rules do", they get you to point B. May not always be the best route, the shortest rout, or the most attractive route; but it is an understandable route.

__________________
The only finished bonsai is a dead one; me 1992 MABA Des Moines Iowa

Last edited by Vance Wood : 12-Nov-2005 at 10:22 AM.

27-Jan-2006	#226
GIANNHS bonsaiTALK Journeyman Join Date: Apr-2004 Location: ATHENS Country: GREECE Posts: 29	''care rules'' I think that is wise not to break the ''care rules''. You may kill a tree in only a few days...

27-Jan-2006	#227
Aaron_K bonsaiTALK Master Chief Join Date: Mar-2004 Country: England USDA Zone: 8 AHS Heat Zone: 2-3 Posts: 1,477	Oh god no! ITS ALIVE!!...... 23 pages was enough for me the first time around on this... I'm unsubscribing before it get fully unearthed again lol __________________ Do not follow where the path may lead. Go instead where there is no path and leave a trail. - Muriel Strode Vulpes pilum mutat, non mores! "A fox may change its skin but never its character"

27-Jan-2006	#228
mike_p bonsaiTALK Master Chief Join Date: Sep-2004 Location: South San Francisco, CA Posts: 1,993	YADA-YADA-YADA!!! The thread that won't die. I suggest that we take it in another direction. Instead of abstract blather, discuss concrete examples. Below is the link to AOB wherein there are several galleries of bonsai. Pick one or more and discuss what rules they follow and what rules they break. This may be instructive. http://www.artofbonsai.org/ Mike __________________ Nature is perfect. Man's attempts to improve nature, Are imperfect. MP@BBB Studio There is no way to happiness. Happiness is the way Gautama Buddha

27-Jan-2006	#229
Joanie Enthusiast *MODERATOR GROUP* Join Date: Feb-2005 Location: Carlsbad, California..coastal desert Country: United States USDA Zone: 11 AHS Heat Zone: 2 Posts: 5,433	The best argument FOR closing a thread.... as opposed to just letting it fade away... is the Phoenix Phenomena. Just when you thought that it was gone to some hyperspace filing cabinet, it resurrects and opens its eyes once more. Joanie __________________ Dogs are just children who eat off the floor

27-Jan-2006

#230

RonMartin(deceased)

Bonsai nare-do-well

Join Date: Jan-2003

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Joanie

The best argument FOR closing a thread.... as opposed to just letting it fade away... is the Phoenix Phenomena. Just when you thought that it was gone to some hyperspace filing cabinet, it resurrects and opens its eyes once more.

Joanie

A good argument for keeping a thread open is when people are interested enough to keep posting to it ;o)

View Poll Results: How long into bonsai before you can start breaking rules?
Never learn the rules	17	23.61%
One month	10	13.89%
One year	12	16.67%
One decade	11	15.28%
When my teacher tells me	4	5.56%
Never	18	25.00%
Voters: 72. You may not vote on this poll

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