Bougainvillea feeding question - bonsaiTALK Community

11-Jul-2006	#1
mike_p bonsaiTALK Master Chief Join Date: Sep-2004 Location: South San Francisco, CA Posts: 1,966	Bougainvillea feeding question I looking for advice on a fertilizer type and feeding schedule to promote new flowers on a bougainvillea. To any and all with experience with bougs, I'd appreciate hearing your methods. Mike __________________ Nature is perfect. Man's attempts to improve nature, Are imperfect. MP@BBB Studio There is no way to happiness. Happiness is the way Gautama Buddha

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11-Jul-2006	#2
acrouse FOG Join Date: Dec-2003 Location: Holiday, Florida Country: United States USDA Zone: 9 AHS Heat Zone: 10 Posts: 45	Get it to flower... Hi Mike, Great plant bougies are! Tough as nails and hard as a weed to kill, you will enjoy it! To get it to flower there are two schools of thought I know of. One is to abuse it. Don't water for a week to a week and a half to let it really dry out to the point the leaves wilt (not dry up now!). When they wilt and they're soft and leathery then water it, and then let it dry again. This will stress the plant which will cause it to flower beautifully. You may have to experiment with your specific weather but remember this is a tough plant once it is well established with good healthy roots. The second school says trim it back hard and it will bloom. Here in FL they grow everywhere like weeds. In yards that are well kept and trimmed weekly the Bougies are almost always in bloom. Seems to be a response to propogate itself. Throw off seeds before it dies type of reaction. I probably have half a dozen of these ranging from rooted twigs to 2"+ branches I have rooted and have in training. When I want them to flower I don't water them. Again when the leaves completely droop and become soft like suede (best description I can give you) all floppy like, then I water once, then let dry again. You will know they are getting ready to flower when the leaves on the ends of the branches become tinted with color. I have never heard of a specific fertilizer which will cause Bougies to bloom though. I use Miracle Grow, Shultz's general, Superthrive, etc., whatever is handy and they thrive. Good luck with a hard to kill yet f-a-s-t growing plant! ENjoy, Art __________________ Never stop accepting change and never stop learning. Once you cease to be able to accept change and to learn; surely you will cease to exist. You see this in the trees? It applies personally as well. Art

12-Jul-2006	#3
mike_p bonsaiTALK Master Chief Join Date: Sep-2004 Location: South San Francisco, CA Posts: 1,966	Hi Art Thanks for your response to my question. If I can get a good crop of flowers on this bonsai, I'll be posting a picture. Mike __________________ Nature is perfect. Man's attempts to improve nature, Are imperfect. MP@BBB Studio There is no way to happiness. Happiness is the way Gautama Buddha

13-Jul-2006

taipan(deceased)

Nudist Bonsai Farmer

Join Date: May-2005

Location: Daintree Rainforest & Great Barrier Reef

Country: Australia

USDA Zone: 6tropical

AHS Heat Zone: humid

Posts: 565

Hi Mike, The age old question of bougy ferts...

As Art says its all to do with water mainly...the less the better...and you have to get full sun...as much as possible...sun is very important...

I'm currently feeding mine a low nitrogen fert 6-8-10....Too much nitrogen goes into making bigger greener leaves...And I'm drying them out as much as I can in the next week to go into our local show...but alas its pouring rain...
This is my hollow bougy in flower...the back of it anyway....and a shot up her trunk looking at the sky...she's completely hollow...

The last small pic is of a bougy about 3 hours drive into the desert here...It recieves no water or fertilizer(apart from gasoline and diesel) It's located next to a petrol bowser as you can see...and aint she just magnificent!

I'm just keeping the leaves in a semi wilted state as much as possible and it seems to be working well...

Good luck
Tai

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13-Jul-2006	#5
taipan(deceased) Nudist Bonsai Farmer Join Date: May-2005 Location: Daintree Rainforest & Great Barrier Reef Country: Australia USDA Zone: 6tropical AHS Heat Zone: humid Posts: 565	Oh...forgot the most important tip I learned in Bali to maintaining flowers Mike! Whenever your flowers fall off....cut the dead stalk out...This will bascially piss the tree off and it responds by continuing to flower... I watched a gardener in Bali spend over 6 hours cutting dead stalks off one small bougy that was just an accent plant at Club Med... The same thing goes for plumeria's....I watched a guy spend a whole day on a tree with a pair of scissors attached to a pole and he gradually cut off every dead flower!...amazing patience....

13-Jul-2006

Dale Cochoy

Old Bonsaiman-new pots

Join Date: Dec-2002

Location: Hartville, Ohio

Country: USA

USDA Zone: 5

AHS Heat Zone: ?

Posts: 2,610

Quote:

Originally Posted by taipan

I watched a gardener in Bali spend over 6 hours cutting dead stalks off one small bougy that was just an accent plant at Club Med...

The same thing goes for plumeria's....I watched a guy spend a whole day on a tree with a pair of scissors attached to a pole and he gradually cut off every dead flower!...amazing patience....

Taipan,
The "amazing patience" seems to me to be in the watching for all that time....

Mike,
Hugh and Martha Meehan ALWAYS have all their bougies blooming during sales at Wash. DC PBA show. Twice now I've asked how they do it in time. Both times I got the same answer....they wilt them!
Dale

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Dale Cochoy
Wild Things Bonsai Studio
Yakimono no Kokoro Bonsai Pottery
Hartville, Ohio

13-Jul-2006	#7
grampz Behr Appleby Join Date: Aug-2003 Location: Kyle Tx Country: USA USDA Zone: 8 AHS Heat Zone: 10 Posts: 946	Mr. Mike, The advice given is spot on for initiating blooming...If they are deprived of water they will throw flowers... Now, about your original question...A few years ago I began to notice many of the landscape nurseries in this area started carrying fertilizers sold for specific species such as palms, crape myrtles, and bougainvilleas...The fertilizer composition for the bougies was disproportionately high in phosphate...I did began using this fertilizer on my bougies and found within the first season of use that they produced many more flowers for a much longer period of time...I was convinced...I now use a product from the ‘Green Light’ company called ‘Super Bloom’ a 12-55-6 fertilizer which I could not be happier with...I mix it at recommended strength and fertilize every 2 to 3 weeks throughout the active growing season, and monthly during our light winters... There are of course times when the flowering is heavier on each of my bougies, but at any given time you will always see a few flowers on at least one or two of the four bougies in my garden...I do attribute this to the use of the high phosphate fertilizer... Regards Behr __________________ As the Master departed the workshop, he could have sworn he heard some one saying rather loudly... *"I thought he would never leave"* San Antonio Bonsai Society, Inc.

13-Jul-2006

taipan(deceased)

Nudist Bonsai Farmer

Join Date: May-2005

Location: Daintree Rainforest & Great Barrier Reef

Country: Australia

USDA Zone: 6tropical

AHS Heat Zone: humid

Posts: 565

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dale Cochoy

Taipan,
The "amazing patience" seems to me to be in the watching for all that time....

lol Dale, I forgot to mention Club Med Nusa Dua in Bali offer free beer on tap!

I sat drinking Bintang all day and chatting to the head chef whilst the gardener attended the tree next to us...It's amazing how patient one can be with free beer! lol

13-Jul-2006	#9
Dale Cochoy Old Bonsaiman-new pots Join Date: Dec-2002 Location: Hartville, Ohio Country: USA USDA Zone: 5 AHS Heat Zone: ? Posts: 2,610	Mike, In my previous post , I forgot to mention ( until Behr's post reminded me) I use Triple Super Phosphate 0-46-0 on mine also... But I'm not convinced its THAT instead of, or more important than, the the "droughting" D. __________________ ________________________________ If you want to be Different.... You have to DO something Different! __________________________________________ Some people NEVER take the time to do a job right the first time.... but, they always seem to make the time to do it over again... ____________________________________________ Dale Cochoy Wild Things Bonsai Studio Yakimono no Kokoro Bonsai Pottery Hartville, Ohio

14-Jul-2006

#10

cbobgo

Dances With Trees

Join Date: Jul-2004

Location: Lake County California

Country: USA

USDA Zone: 8-9

AHS Heat Zone: 7-8

Posts: 573

This is a post I saved from the good old days of gardenweb. I've reposted it several times, as it's the most detailed description of bougie training that I've seen. The author is specifically talking about bougies in Michigan and Florida, so some of the specifics may or may not apply to other places.

·

Quote:

Posted by: BillStruhar 5b Detroit (My Page) on Mon, Sep 20, 04 at 0:04

For a Michigander to give advice to a Floridian on how to grow Boogies may stretch credulity, but what the Hell... I grow them in the pretty dismal climate of Detroit, and what you have seems to me to be worth saving, so if I didn’t offer advice- and it died- I would grieve. Therefore, I expose myself to the critical elements... for the children.

In Florida, the major growth period for Boogies is from May/June to October-ish. During that period it should have rampant growth because as an equatorial critter, hot temperatures, long photo-periods, and lots of rain (heavy, daily) in a rich, highly-organic soil (lots of plant material breaking-down in the presence of billions of organisms) is home-sweet-home (well, kinda like South American jungles).

The typical Boogie growth cycle is 6ish weeks of rampant growth, 6ish weeks of flowering at the tips of new growth, 6ish weeks of quiescence, back to growth, etc. Typically, they flower around Vernal and Autumnal equinox. If you do the math, you will find that this aforementioned 18ish week cycle does not exactly match the 26 week equal night and day cycle. The exact cycle depends upon the exact conditions the plant is in. The part of the cycle that has the best growing conditions in Florida is the long, hot, wet, summer, late April to early November.

Climate is worldwide, weather is local. Florida’s climate doesn’t change much, but weather in Florida can be really different year-to-year. The exact Boogie cycle may be expected to be different year-to-year just like the weather.

Anyway, the growth period during the North American summer will be longer than the growth period during the North American winter. Not hard to understand. The flowering period following the long, hot, wet summer SHOULD be longer than the winter flowering period because more energy can be stored in a longer, hotter, wetter period. The quiet period, may or may not reflect the exhaustion resulting from the length of the flowering period and/or the other factors contributing to using-up the resources of the plant during the previous flowering period. A lessor flowering performance during the Vernal Equinox may contribute to a shorter quiescence period in late North American winter/early North American spring.

So, Clay, it appears that you have re-potted this critter just at the end of the normal high-growth period. Not depriving it of high growth, but in saving it’s life, you may find him/her wanting to flower, and thinking that good. We all know that sex takes a lot out of us, and your Boogie is no different. It probably won’t kill’um, but it won’t do any good either. For now, that is- until you see the next high growth period commencing- pick off all flowering tips.

When the next growth period begins in your neighborhood (there in Florida), prune back every branch to the most inboard live bud, or, failing to see a live bud, to the most inboard leaf. Don’t feed until it sets a head of leaves (unlike the feeding of a non-bonsai plant). When the leaves are full sized, begin feeding.

Unlike other kinds of critters, the most outboard bud on a given branch, which you have left, WILL NOT be the dominant bud growing first and longest. That bud will produce foliage slowly, later. After the whole critter has set a batch of leaves, some time later buds elsewhere will send out rogue or dominant shoots. These may be characterized thus: each leaf will have a longer internode then the one before it. You want to prune off 3 or 4 leaves when the shoot has six leaves. The same thing will happen with this wild shoot as happened before. It will park. This is really good from the standpoint of bonsai.

Over time, you will accumulate lots of these parked stems which have lots of buds (more buds will develop during the "parked" period. Eventually, you will get fewer and fewer shoots bolting, and more of the parked stems producing clusters, that is- all of the buds on that stem leafing-out at the same time and with leaves sort-of the same size. As this clustering continues, the rogue shoots will be shorter, they will have shorter internodes, and there will be many more interior buds per shoot.

The next part of this is a function of growing these critters in the poor conditions of the North, and I don’t know how it applies- or doesn’t apply- to you Southerners. When I bring My Boogies into the house (not a greenhouse), all the leaves drop within two weeks. It’s not hard to understand, from full sun to a lousy window, I’d do it, too. Anyway, at that time I prune off every leader bud. When it re-leafs out in these poor conditions inside the house, it does so weakly. Every time I bump the plant, leaves fall off. It continues this all winter. I only prune long shoots, as above.

When the time in spring comes when I can thrust the plant into a greenhouse, high sun situation, I give it one last pruning of too-long shoots, and the growth cycle begins, anew. The part of this winter situation which may be very important to me , but not attainable by you is that I am obtaining the equivalent of several defoliations over winter. Each defoliation contributes to an increase in ramification and a decrease in robust growth. Bad for flowering, good for leaf reduction and more modest growth. Again, I don’t know how this applies to your Florida situation.

Good Luck! Once in the cycle, things get easier. Below is a Link to the Bougainvillea Information Page created by Gordon Braswell, a retired nursery owner who compiled more information on Bougainvilleas than anyone else in the world, and made it available to everyone else. Those of us who know anything about Bougainvilleas have learned it from Gordon. All Hail Gordon!

The link he mentioned was a dead end. Hope this was helpful for you. I don't know if Bill is still active in the forums - I haven't seen him around.

- bob

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