Bored already!

bonsaial1

It's not even winter and I am already bored. I need something to work on bad, and I have some cool stuff to work on this spring, but I have to maintain control and wait till then.

The reason I started this thread was to have something constructive to talk about. The contest is sputtering along with a post every day or two, and not much in the way of meaningfull discussion going on. I plan on changing that with this thread.

What's the topic? How about long term expectations!

We all know that as we do bonsai longer, that our capacity to learn expands, and our tastes change. Things that we thought were cool a year ago seem pathetic and childlike today.

Anybody for a time machine?

If we could move into the future say..10 years, we could see what is popular, how our taste will change, the new techniques you have learned. Step back to the present and buy accordingly! Wouldn't that be a kick. We all work at an extreame disadvantage in this art we call bonsai. For most of us we keep plants around on the table too long. The plants become so boring that we can hardly stand to look at them. Some may be approaching middle age, and look no better 10 years later then they did 10 years ago. What if we could somehow buy somethig now that would be good in say.. 10 years?

The money trail..

We can! How do we do it oxymoron Al? Well.. we buy finished stock. Well.. as finished as we can afford. That depends on how large your trail is! Buying finished stock is a good way to invest in the future. What do you mean invest? Buying a more finished piece will have very few problems. Why fiddle with problems. My idea of a bonsai is the final appearance. I am not that thrilled about spending a few years correcting roots, or bending trunks. I sure do not want to spend my time air layering off a trunk from a bad nebari. While there are some personal gratifications from this experiance, it gets old fast.

This investment helps us from getting bored with the stock. There is nothing like having a piece ready to show at any time. Think about it.. something that looks this good now, can only get better in that 10 years. Or at least if you leave it that long, the thing will be ready for the masterpiece restyle at the end of those 10 years.

Any other ideas oxymoron Al?

YAMADORI. This is key. This is the only way to own stock and have something that will only get better the longer it sits. Talk about a real estate investment! This is something that will outlast any budding bonsai master. The possibilties for enhancement and styling changes are endless with suitable yamadori stock. When the time comes in 10 years and you are bored with all the juniper mallsais, that big fat collected whatever will be waiting there ready for your master hands to release something wonderful.

I have had many young new people come thru my backyard and the backyards of others and ask why I don't go into business making bonsai. The juniper I have entered in the contest is one such type of tree that can be made from nearly "any" procumbens picked up at a nursery. I could pop these out by the hundreds. It is boring and not very artistic as far as what I seek in the artistic merits of bonsai. For some this is hard to swallow. But years from now you might understand where I am coming from. What would I really be accomplishing, except a buck here and there.

There has to be more to bonsai then just making acceptable bonsai or what resemble bonsai. A person has to strive for more, there will be enevitable boredom with out proper stimulation.

Is this how they started in Europe?

I doubt it. I think bonsai with small plants is fine for a while, but to move to the next level one needs to start thinking about spending hundreds of dollars instead of 20.00. I was surprised at the range of prices for stock paid in the contest. Moving the limit to 50.00 did not stimulate many to try to spend it all. In fact many if not most spent right around 20.00, or the limit in the last contest. The jump from 20.00 to 50.00 is large in the wallet but slim in the plant world. Most nurseries carry plants to about 20.00 and then start jumping to the 100.00 range. There is not much around 50.

Most of the revolutinary work going on in Europe is with collected stock. Most if not all the major exhibits feature collected stock as the tree source. This is not so in America. They are split about 50/50. Probably closer to 80/20, 80 on the converted nursery stock and 20 on the collected, which is almost always California juniper or something similar.
Why is that? Are we just cheap? Did our Government lock up all the good land before we could pilage it? I don't know!

Bottom line, buy some good trees. Buy some finished trees. Seek out collection sites or find someone with access and try to purchase some collected trees. Just make sure thay are worthy now so they will be worthy later.

/|\
III Oxymoron-Al

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RonMartin(deceased)

Al sometimes the things you write are pretty good. They make a lot of sense and need nothing added. This is one of those times.
Good post ! ! !

Will_Heath

After spending the last week carefully marking those trees that are in the ground, in grow beds and inter-mixed with landscaping for yet another drastic chop back. My thoughts wandered to the many trees up north that I have carefully marked location wise on my GPS. These trees are very collectable, some I have chopped, some are already "spaded" on one side, some on both, some are awaiting my decision as to chop and trim in the wild or collect first.

I have already expanded my grow beds and built a dozen grow boxes out of plastic lumber, I have the space. Yet each of these trees I will collect this spring and next spring will still need years of development. Is it better to buy a finished or near finished tree already potted or to collect these? The collected trees will be totally my own, untouched by other bonsaist, yet will not be finished for years. The bought trees will be displayable now, as you said Al, yet will never really be the sole product of my hands and imagination.

My guess is a good combination of both would be the best way to go. The nursery stock will then take a back seat in the display areas, overshadowed by their superiors, waiting for growth and development to bring them back to the front shelfs.

It is opening day of archery season here, my excuse to get out into the woods, enjoy nature, silence, and trees. It is also when I find 90% of trees that are collectable. When I find one, jackpine, larch, oak, hawthorn, white pine, spruce, etc I mark it into my GPS with a note stating species, size, etc. Then another time I come back and decide if I will work it in the ground for a couple years or if I will spade a side and start the long collection process.

But do I need more? How many is enough? When will it reach the point that I have too many to care for, then what?

Adam_MA

Al,
Great topic! I will just touch on a couple of points that you made.
The Money Trail: Good point, although it's nice for all bonsai artists to keep those pet project trees around to fill in the time between tweaking their specimen trees, refining your artistic skills by working on quality material will bring you ability much more in-tune and it sure feels good to work on something nice!

Yamadori: I hear from some sources that there are great places to collect not too far from where I live. I sure would love to hook-up with someone who knows these areas and knows how and when to dig. I look over the thread where you dug those great junipers, and I turn every shade of green! I see the collected material that Mr. Pall uses to create his masterpieces, and hope that one day I will have the opportunity to stumble upon a great future bonsai. (Anyone in my area know where to dig?)

Contest entry's: You hit the nail on the head there... I went out with every intention of spending the full $50 limit price, but found the same thing you did. Plenty of stock up to the $20 range then a huge jump after that. Now I could have purchased some already worked on stock for closer to the $50 but the contest is about transformation not refinement of existing stock. Maybe a future contest will make concessions to allow for this?

Great thread, I'm interested to hear from others!
Adam

grampz

Thanks, for these thoughts oxymoron Al...You have stated so well what I think most bonsaists have found, that have been doing this for a while [even if we are starting over]...

Regards
Behr

jportock

As a beginner in bonsai I have still have a lot of enthusiasm for the "boring" aspects. I don't yet have the skill or the experience to be bored by nursery stock. Each tree/ shrub I have purchased (or will purchase for a long time ) still has the capacity to teach me something new.

At the same time I am excited by the prospect of collection. I have already collected a maple and it seems to be thriving. I look forward to keeping this tree for many years.

Perhaps, some of the innovation that has "broken the rules of bonsai" has been brought on by this same emotion of being bored and wondering what is next.

Al, maybe you are on the cusp of making a huge development artistically. I would imagine that if you were to pierce your boredom with some new challenge that the result could be enjoyed by many.

For now I will continue to be entertained by my dinky little trees and continue to learn with each choice I make.

Best Regards,
JP

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JTriptow

Then you send all the "extras" that could survive in my environment to ME!

All kidding aside, I see exactly what Al means, though at a much more beginner level. I have too little experience under my belt to become bored yet with any aspect of bonsai, I have so much to learn. But day by day my expectations change and week by week my collection changes. I am proud to say that I have rid myself of many silly twiggy trees this season and left what I think may be workable. Of course this will change again next year as my eye for future development and my experience level grows.

At our recent club auction I bought my first tree that has what I think today is "awesome potential"... but yet it is still just that, potential. It will take several years of new branches, a thickened apex, and refinement to be a great tree.

I have yet to purchase a finished tree, but even Thomas J. told me and my husband that we really should purchase at least one finished tree. If nothing else, it gives you pleasure knowing that one tree is perfect. Then you may not get too bored waiting for the other trees to catch up in their due time. I suppose that is most likely the reason many new enthusiasts don't stick with bonsai in the long haul.

So, next spring is my target. Then it will be time to purchase a finished tree.

Jennifer

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Who knew trees could become an obsession?

Will_Heath

Jennifer, I have a few trees that are pretty much finished, I keep hoping for an act of God to revive them. You're welcome to them.

Will

JTriptow

Funny that... I keep hoping for an act of God to make my potential trees better!

Jennifer

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Who knew trees could become an obsession?