Bonsai Watering Question

mushashi

Hi,

I have a question about watering/fertilizing for bonsai. I have been watering my bonsai with tap water that has a reading between 180-210 PPM dissolved solids and was feeding my trees seaweed extract fertilizer every two weeks during the season. I prefer to use organic fertilzing techniques. This seaweed extract is fairly tame though. I think it is about 1-1-1 or something like that.

About a month ago someone suggested that I start using my RO water to water the trees because it is better quality. My RO usually reads about 15-17 PPM. Anyway, I have noticed something recently, primarily with some of my deciduous trees. The leaves have developed a somewhat yellowish cast to them. It does not seem to be yellow like chlorotic and it is not bright yellow like overwatering or the like. It is more like a tint or just not as green as it should be. I really notice it on my Ginko. It is almost like the very start of fall color.

Anyway, I started wondering if it might be due to the RO water being too low in some minerals or the like, or is it coincidence. I recently, last feeding switched to Bonsai Pro liquid fertilizer which is a 7-9-5 and has a bit more iron, just in case.

My big questions are does anyone have an idea whether I should switch back to my tap water, is it the fertilizer(too soon to say on the Bonsai Pro) I only fed one time with it so far so too soon to tell if new fertilizer will help, or am I missing something?(most likely)

I would really like to find the cause and get these guys to green up a bit more before they start yellowing for the fall.

Oh, one side note: I have a Acer Palmatum Seikimori in a cascade design that also has done something strange. All the leaves have a very pretty red outline to them on the outer edges, but a few of them turned slowly yellow over a few weeks and fell off much like you would see in the fall. I am not sure what to think about that one. It looks like one more leaf will fall off and the rest for now seem to be remaining green with the red edges.

Does it look like this might be a related problem or another coincidence? It is almost like I am getting an early fall around here.

Any thoughts/suggestions would be greatly appreciated.


Thanks.......

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TreeBay

What is your water pH? It sounds like chlorosis, and some chelated iron might clear things u for you but won't really address the cause

Regards,

Matt

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mushashi

Good question! Are you asking about the Tap water ph or the RO? Our tap water here has alot of calcium so I suspect it is more basic than acidic but not sure.


I am getting my tap water from the same source as you are though, I think, if that helps......


Thanks.......

Oh, are you implying that the ph might be affecting the uptake of iron? if so you are correct that would only serve as a Band-Aid.

What would be the ph that would be most appropriate for the trees, neutral?

I guess that I need to get a water ph testing kit.....

PatArizona

Mushashi...

R/O water...I've not used it, but I know a few folks who do, and they like it.

Further, I agree...you may need iron.

I’ve been using Dyna-Grow products since 1989, and they work well for me…with my fast draining soil…here in the Arizona High Desert…

Look at the web sight for Dyna-Grow - http://www.dyna-gro.com/. It will tell you a lot more about their products. DynaGro is located in Emeryville or San Pablo.

For some time I’ve used these products individually, and just recently started combining them (per manufacturer advice), with good results (no controlled study, though).

The Products, Solution (mixing):

Dyna-Gro Products
KLN Liquid Rooting Concentrate
GROW Liquid Plant Food (with 11 or more micros, including iron)
Pro-TeKt Liquid Silicon Solution (From the label: never combine concentrates…dilute with water before mixing with KLN and Grow)

Per gallon of water…
1 teaspoon KLN
1 teaspoon GROW
½ teaspoon Pro-TeKt

Set aside 1-2 cupsof water from the gallon.
Combine KLN and GROW with the water (gallon), mix…
Combine Prt-TeKt with the 1-2 cups of water, mix…
Combine the two solutions, mix well

Hope you can use this info.

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BONSAI isn't about surviving in a storm, rather, how to dance in the rain.
THE ONLY WAY: Always remember, and don't ever forget, that whatever you read here is not cast in concrete... the intent of any advice is to help. In no way should you feel that I’m saying that my way is the only way…heaven forbid! I've seen far too much of the "my way or the highway" attitude in bonsai as well as in other areas of life.

mushashi

Hi Pat,

Actuially the product I just starting using is called Bonsai Pro and it is made by Dyna-Gro. Is it true that all the products from this company are basically organic?

Also, if I do need iron, what is the best source considering I prefer organic and how many treatments would I need?

Thanks.....

rockm

You may notice a difference if you go with more balanced "chemical" fertlizers and not place such a premium on "organic." These terms are loaded anyway. One is no more effective or environmentally friendly than the other, really. It makes no difference to the plant whether it gets its nitrogen from chicken manure or from a solution mixed from powder. It simply wants nutrients. Nitrogen is Nitrogen. Potassium is potassium. What matters is how much is available when the plant needs it.

It might help to view fertilizer's use by what you want to achieve with your tree's growth. Do you want to maintain even, slow growth in a mature bonsai? Then organic pellets would work better than a fast acting stronger "chemical" fertilizer. If you want to bulk up a tree's trunk, branching, overall growth, then a "chemical" fertilizer would be more appropriate.

I don't think Dyna Grow is an "organic."

mushashi

Great advice! You are of course correct. I actually just got off the phone with Dyna-Gro and they said while their stuff is not organic, it is much safer than other mbinorganics because of the lack of urea etc. Also, it contains all the elements needed where many plant foods do not. They said pretty much what you said on organic vs non.

They also, suggested I try going back to the tap water for a while anyway, because it may be that the RO is pulling out some needed minerals causing the tree to yellow. Also, they said don't forget organic foods need to be broken down vs inorganic.

Well, some of my trees I want to increase size but a few like a 40 year old Mikawa JBP, I have I don't want the shape to go wild. The Dyna-Gro I have is a 7-9-5, fairly balanced. I also have another product I have not tried yet that IS organic and is a 3-3-3. I think for now, the key is to get this yellowing problem under control. Who would think I would have to go back to tap water to possibly accomplish that!

Thanks...Any other tips greatly appreciated!
P.S. I think the Dyna-Gro stuff has .1% iron versus about .01% in my seaweed extract....

PatArizona

G'day Mush...

I agree with Rockm and the DynaGro rep...not organic, and, a plant doesn't care, organic or inorganic. Regardless of O or I, the fertilizer is chemical in nature when it starts into the plants distibution system.

My take on this part of the discussion is...I think there is an enormous hangup on the idea that "...that's the way it's always been done...".

However, inorganic ferts are easier to obtain, easier to apply, easier to store, and they are much less smelly than organics. And, speaking of smell...I already have an over abundance of ground squirrels, tree squirrels, chipmonks, pack rats, skunks, cottontails, birds, birds and more birds, domestic cats, bobcats, coyotes, javelinas, deer...and there must be more. I don't need the smell of organics to attract any more.

So, organics or inorganics? Does it matter? They both work. However, it's a matter of choice, and my choice is inorganics...works for me!!!

Always remember that, unless I quote someone else, whatever info is contained in my posts is primarily from my own experience.

__________________
BONSAI isn't about surviving in a storm, rather, how to dance in the rain.
THE ONLY WAY: Always remember, and don't ever forget, that whatever you read here is not cast in concrete... the intent of any advice is to help. In no way should you feel that I’m saying that my way is the only way…heaven forbid! I've seen far too much of the "my way or the highway" attitude in bonsai as well as in other areas of life.

TreeBay

On your earlier question - a just slightly acidic pH is ideal for most plants because it favors free ionic exchange of a lot of the minor nutrients. One side benefit of organic fertilizer is it tends to push the pH down, but if you're in an area with atmospheric pollutants (like acid rain) it might not help!

A lot of "inorganic bonsai soils" aren't very sticky in terms of their cationic capacity and so don't pick up well on nutrients. So an organic can have the added facility of providing a more continuous nutrient level and some beneficial microbial action, but use what works for you.

By the way, both the tree squirrels and chipmunks make excellent organic fertilizer when properly prepared. I can't speak for the coyotes, but the javelinas are mighty tasty blackened, with cayenne pepper.

Regards,

Matt

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