Bonsai Stores

RonMartin(deceased)

Now here is a topic that we skirt around most of the time. Both sides on this topic never seem to really communicate. Both are , it seems to me, stuck on transmit and no one is on receive.
Anyway I thought I would ask the burning questions. (Then duck)
1.What would you want a good bonsai store to carry.
2.What kind of classes do you think they should host.
3.What kind of mark up do you think would be reasonable for them to put on their products.
( no fair saying "What the market would bare" )
4. How and where should they advertise their products so that you would know where in the heck they are.
5. And the most important question of all.
Would you support such a store or would you still go to K-Mart ;o)
They would naturally always be cheaper.
I will take the gist of the comments made and put them in my newsletter that only goes to the shops out there.
Now it is your turn. Got anything to say to the bonsai shops.
No I wont use anyone's name in the article so you won't P.O. your local shop if you have one. I will post the article here first just in case someone objects to the context of it.
Yes I own a shop but really want to go onto other things (teaching) and close that down. Nothing you can say will affect me. I might not agree but I won't get upset.
This is your one chance to make some good comments to those that sell bonsai stuff. Take it a bit seriously.

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RonMartin(deceased)

One thing I forgot to mention. Please don't mention any of the stores out there by name.
No sense in starting a war.

Carl_Bergstrom

The basic tools. The basic fertilizers, soil additives, etc.

A wide selection of pots, including (1) cheap mica *wink*, (2) decent quality "budget" clay, (3) high quality specimen-grade imports (4) some interesting artistic domestic pots by some of our spectacular domestic potters. And yes, I realize that (3) and (4) cost serious money - I'd be happy to paying that kind of money if I had the luxury of looking at the pots in these categories before buying them.



This isn't a big draw for me. I've found my teachers for the time being. I'd be interested in visiting artist workshops using store-provided high quality material, but I bet I'd be in the minority given the prices that it would take.



This is a tough one, because I actually don't care what the markup is, as long as I like the price. That is to say, if the store gets a nice unstyled collected hemlock for $50 from a private collector and sells it to me for $400, I don't care, as long as I think I got $400 worth of raw material. If the store buys a $6 bottle of lime sulpher at the hardware and repackages it into 10 bottles at $6 each, I don't care as long as a single one of the ten bottles lasts me a few years. That way at least I don't have a gallon of the cr@p sitting in my garage waiting for the dog to eat it.



Another tough one. One great strategy is that the owner could post often and constructively to on-line forums without overtly promoting his shop....but I think you've already figured that out!



I would definitely support such a store. (And indeed I spend far more money that I would like my wife to realize at __[name removed]__, which happens to meet most of the above criteria. PM me, Ron, if you want to know more about exactly what that means.)

Quote:

This is your one chance to make some good comments to those that sell bonsai stuff. Take it a bit seriously.

Ok, one more thing, and it's a big one.

My single biggest obstacle right now is finding adequate stock. In particular:

I want rough stock that is far enough along to be worth working on (i.e., field grown for several years) that is better than the average cr@p that comes over from the imports (wound-around-a-stick elms, white pines grafted onto obscenely swollen black pine root stock, brutally stumped hornbeams). It doesn't have to be far along at all - it can be almost entirely unstyled. I realize this is not going to be cheap, and that's fine. Right now it's not even available, and I end up growing my own for a decade or paying serious money for trees for imports with serious flaws that they'll never overcome. Give me something the same price as those imports, a bit younger if necessary, a lot less styled if necessary, in a big old nursery can, and I'll be very happy!

Best regards,
Old Mister Crow

dbz12fan

1.What would you want a good bonsai store to carry.-stuff for bonsai. Seriosly- I would like to see more pots. I always have trouble finding that perfect pot. Also I would like to see better material.
2.What kind of classes do you think they should host.- free ones. Seriosly- ones that deal with pine training.
3.What kind of mark up do you think would be reasonable for them to put on their products.
( no fair saying "What the market would bare" )- I like going to an unpriced store and you go up to the owner and ask the price. That way you can always come back and pray he is in a good mood and ask him a price again. Yes I was serios about that.
4. How and where should they advertise their products so that you would know where in the heck they are.-There are all sorts of websites that have great bonsai information to put ads on (like this one).
5. And the most important question of all.
Would you support such a store or would you still go to K-Mart.- go to k-mart for what I definately would support a store like that.

Edited to make it more serios , kinda missed that last sentence before.

__________________
"Success demands understanding"-Andy Rutledge

Charles Bevan
Vero Beach, Fl

dbz12fan

Guess I kinda didn't notice that part on a few questions.

__________________
"Success demands understanding"-Andy Rutledge

Charles Bevan
Vero Beach, Fl

Jay

Ron, I think your questions are fair... and called for! Carls answers are pretty much on my wave length, so I will not do more than say... me too for basic answers.

Now, as an advanced novice, I have learned that hard fact, you get what you pay for. A K-Mart tree (or Home Depot or even average Garden Center) could be a healthy tree, but it is at the very beginnings of its training. Trees purchased at reputable Bonsai Centers are on their way. If they are just raw stock they are usually not that much more than the cheap places. If they have seen the hand of someone in the know, you will and should pay for it. Unfortunete as it may sound, we are engaged in a Boutique type industry. There is very little volume to talk about. The people, like yourself, are there to make a living... not to be there for us and fade away into the woodwork.

As Carl said, I would (and have) paid in some peoples mind alot for a tree not even showing its final branches, but, I see the future and know (I think) the effort involved. If we do not support the stores and on line shops they like our local hardware stores, will not be there when we really need them!

well thats my 2 cents!
Jay

__________________
A Bonsai student living with his trees at N 44.37 W 77.49...
Think before you act... then think again... no good comes from rushing

RonMartin(deceased)

Hope no one thinks that I am ignoring these responses. But just for a change I think I will just set back and listen. Maybe if I do that I will get the full picture.
FWIW I will make a few comments later on.

K.A. Rutledge

1.What would you want a good bonsai store to carry.
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Everything that matters to bonsai and its related endeavors (bonsai, pots, stands, soil, accessories, books, tools, suiseki, tokonoma (display) elements, kusamono, etc...)

BTW, only quality merchandise: quality trees, quality pots, quality everything. Anything less puts you into the same category as everyone else. Not a good place in business.
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2.What kind of classes do you think they should host.
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Beginner classes by the staff/owner and specific classes by top artists from around the country/world
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3.What kind of mark up do you think would be reasonable for them to put on their products.
( no fair saying "What the market would bare" )
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Irrelevant. The only thing that matters is what the market will bear - in other words, what the public is willing to pay. No one but the owner needs to know anything about markup and it is not an issue for debates or votes. It is an issue for business survival.
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4. How and where should they advertise their products so that you would know where in the heck they are.
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Absolutly everywhere possible. The advertising budget should be second only to the product budget. Anything less is inadequate. BTW, virtually all of the bonsai business community falls into the "inadequate" category when it comes to advertising.

I created 4 advertising campaigns (4 campaigns, not 4 ads) for a large bonsai nursery recently and they're scared to do it because no one else in the U.S. industry is going about things like I suggest. The funny thing is that the alternative is "business as usual," which is what they're trying to rise above. Go figure.

You can lead a horse to water, but...
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5. And the most important question of all.
Would you support such a store?
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Sure, and I do support those who approach these criteria. If there was a shop that embodied all of these elements, they'd be the best shop - and most popular (read: biggest business) shop in the U.S..

Kind regards,
Andy Rutledge
http://www.bonsai365.com/ living bonsai every day
zone 8, Texas

Bart Thomas(deceased)

Hi, Ron::

I basically agree with Mr. Crow and Andy Rutledge.

I am particularly desirous of good pre-bonsai stock. I've found a couple of interesting, by appointment only, have to draw a map to find them places here in New Jersey, and all they sell is pre bonsai.

As for a general bonsai shop, it is my understanding that it is necessary to have all the basic inventory, but I really question the business sense of having a large inventory of expensive pots. I suspect that the turnover on that stuff would likely run you out of business. Perhaps that's what shows are for, anyway.

I will NOT buy bonsai stuff, 'ceptin a little tree that catches my fancy, from chain stores, garden centers, and the like because I don't want to see these (bonsai stores) valuable resources disappear. The only guys I know who made a small fortune in bonsai are those who started with a large one.

Having said that, Yes, I have bought pots from the monastary, for the wide selection, fairly priced. AND I bought my stainless Masakuni tools, via the web, from Japan because that's the only way I can afford them. I have occasionally bought the nice pot or slightly used tool on eBay.

However, my main sources are my two local shops. They know I know I can beat their prices from time to time, but I buy to SUPPORT them. I also keep my mouth shut about my alternate sources, when I'm in the shop, except when I've found a nice, one-of-a-kind pot somewhere.

As for instruction, you certainly have to have enough to support the beginner and to carry them to intermediate (which I define as the ability to sit in front of a tree and find your way to a nice outcome without assistance) stage. After that, open workshops make for a nice, hands-dirty club atmosphere which helps one's interest build.

The occasional visiting fireman is a real plus. If I were in your neck of the woods, I'd have signed up for the Colin Lewis school and shared a few trips to Jupiter with you.

Regards,

Bart