Bonsai in Europe

TreeBay

Here are two sites for you mad clickers

BonsaiEmpire.com - A Dutch bonsai site with photos of Serissa, Privet, interesting discussion of basic forms, styling and care (be sure to click on the English flag unless you speak Dutch!) also featuring an international links page called bonsai.pagina.nl

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ripsgreentree

Without starting World War III, I find that the European bonsai enthusiast has an appreciation for older, pricier trees. They have the ability to import trees direct from China and Japan and do so in great numbers, in general at least in central Ca.

I find that we are far behind them. In Fresno, to my shame, our only bonsai nursery has brought some chinese material in, but when a tree gets over two hundred dollars his costomers run and hide.

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ripsgreentree

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TreeBay

I think you may be right. I did invite some members from the UK and Holland, so maybe we'll get to hear their viewpoint.

US import restrictions are very strict. They were written to protect the agrobusiness segment of our economy, which is a big deal. Did you hear that Bonsai Northwest in Seattle found some kind of Asian insect pest in an imported shipment of maples and had to have the whole lot (a couple thousand) destroyed?

I wonder if the average European might have a bit more leisure time available too. A lot of them get a one-month vacation every year and it's not unusual to call over there and hear that a company is shutting down for 6 weeks so the employees can all go on, "Holiday."

Maybe they're all headed over to Asia to buy up all the cool bonsai?

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wirralbonsai

well you did not hold back there much did you you female cat . the thing with most people into bonsai in europe is that the average age is proberbaly 70 and they all have there pensions to spend on it. so there all old people that have not got the time to see a tree grow for twenty years so they have to buy them. this is a very anoying thing in the bonsai clubs as there in not much recognition of grown tree's so you usualy find that some one has won with a bought tree that they have had for a couple of years and they call it there own.
i my self am only thirty so by time i retier in thirty years my tree's will be good and old so i wait and see
Scott

Most of the very best bonsai in Europe that I've seen are not imported, but rather are collected specimens from the local environs. There is wonderful material being colleted there. One look at Valerio Gianotti's or Salvatore Liporace's work provides good insight.

From what I've observed and discovered of good European bonsai, the standard is far above the North American standard due to the fact that Europeans tend to correctly characterize bonsai as an art form rather than just a hobby. Excellence in artistic work is expected and rewarded. Hobbyists, as commonly found in the U.S., are content to grow trees in any pot, showed any way to suit their fancy (and why not!? ;-). However, since bonsai is an art - filled with concerns for plenty of aesthetic ideals, matching pot to tree, proper display of the tree, etc... it is not common to find high quality examples in the U.S. where bonsai is not widely considered to be an art.

It is just fine if one wants just to grow trees in pots any old way if that's what one wants to do - that's what's fun, but it is not conducive to quality bonsai.

Kind regards,
Andy Rutledge
zone 8, Texas

bonsaial1

Bonsai is no differant than a dozen or so other hobbies. There are people like me, that are on the fringe of the hobby and there are people like Walter Pall, or Colin Lewis that are able to make a living at it. If a person has un-limited money to throw at a hobby, then one may be able to get themselves noticed by influential people in the bonsai world. When I bought Marc Noelanders book, I was astonished to find that he hunts bonsai in the mountains with friends from the comfort of a helocopter.

Now if we were to put a limit on Marc or Walter and Colin, and say that your bonsai budget is 500.00 per year (which would be a lot of money for some hobbyist) and out of that he has to buy soil, wire, pots, tools, and plant material and you can't go collecting because its protected, then there would not be as many trees in the books as they have now.

Granted they do hunt much of their plant material as yamadori, but here in the United States I have not seen the Forestry Service, Green Peace, or the Sierra Club opening up "collected plant permit stands" lately. In any endeavor it's "who you know" that makes it work for your personal goals.

I have had many hobbies in the past , salt water reef aquariums, remote control airplanes, bonsai, guitars, coin collecting, stamp collecting, sports cards, and hot sauce. It has always been the same, the groupies always hang around the guys with the most and best toys. As far as Europe having better bonsai than the USA, I don't know about that. Japan is not even as large as Calif. Europe is only slightly larger than the state of Texas. I think if you pull all the talent from the whole USA, and put them into the state of Cal. and have one SUPER SHOW, I think alot of people would change their minds.

I think there is alot of artistic bonsai here in the USA. Lets just say that the "GOLDEN COUNTRY BONSAI FEDERATION" is having their convention next year and their in the process of looking for the headliner. Who ya gonna call!! Well their is plenty of talent in Japan, expensive but good artists. There are the people that I have mentioned from Europe and probably a dozen more that could be added. But... what if "GCBF" decided that they wanted to use Buford Ghondorff. (who the hell is Buford Ghondorff?) Well let's see, Buford has been doing bonsai for 19 years, he has about 50 to 80 plants on his benches at home. Most of his plant material has come from nursery stock. Its not the best stock but it has been adequate. He has a few nice pieces that he has traded for and has refined their shape and made it his own. He owns a collection of 30 or so bonsai books, and has every Bonsai Today magazine. He belongs to 4 bonsai clubs, and goes to all the workshops to improve his trees.

Buford has requested that he wants no fee, His fee will be just to get the chance to work on the piece of material that the GCBF has procured for him. It is a shimpaku juniper with a seven-inch trunk. Massive taper, and branches up the ass with foilage next to the trunk, and lots of it. I can count on one hand how many people will get to work on material like this. Are they better artists than Buford? The world will never know.

There are bonsai people that sometimes have to make a decision, birthday present for the neighbor kids b.d. party, or 5 gallon juniper at the nursery. I'll bet the wife will help nudge you in the right direction.

I'll lay you three to one that we little fringe bonsai guys have things to offer the bonsai world. We'll just never be heard.

Untill now.... Bonsaial

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wirralbonsai

Well said Al there is a little to much snobbery in bonsai {being the best} what i feel is the thing to remember bonsai started it's roots in china as a for to enhance meditation not to gain your self status on a society ladder. if you look into the history of bonsai in japan i think you will find that in time past common people where put to death for having tree that where better than the nobels. so if in a modern society we cannot get past the undercast of taking things to serious then we as bonsai people may see a demise in the art, people have to see that it's something they can all do not something that your bank balance depends on so lets keep it as a thing for all not the select whom seen to have what they want any way.
Scott

K.A. Rutledge

Hi Scott and Al,

We seem to be talking 2 different subjects. I was discussing artistic quality - even recognizing bonsai as art - and you guys seem to be going off on tangents about class envy. What gives?

The points I have touched on have nothing to do with the size of one's bank account. I was referring to the unfortunate way in which bonsai is characterized in the U.S.. It is not widely considered to be art. Therefore, it is not respected by the public or recognized by the arts community as such. Conversely, in Europe (some parts more than others), bonsai IS considered to be art just as sculpture and painting and music are each considered to be art.

The disparity of quality that I spoke of has nothing to do with expense, but with attention to artistic values; the way bonsai are commonly displayed in the U.S. is not consistently (or even usually) artistic. For instance, shows in Japan and often in Europe are scheduled based on the best time to show the trees - for their physical quality. In the U.S., shows rarely happen unless there is a convention connected with it and these events are scheduled based on the whims of the planning committee. The physical condition of the trees (for seasonal concerns) is not often optimium. Few U.S. exhibitions require (or even suggest) that bonsai be displayed artistically and comparatively few "artists" think to make the display an artistic one.

As this has nothing to do with the size of one's bank account, let's get off the class envy junk at least for this topic. It may be fine for another thread, but it has no place in this one. Besides, why would one want to argue in favor of lower quality?? That's silly. We can't all have trees of the same quality, but that's life. Nothing wrong with that. Further, it has nothing to do with artistic quality. From what I've seen, having great material gets one no closer to involving bonsai with art than having poor material does.

Kind regards,
Andy Rutledge
zone 8, Texas

K.A. Rutledge

Al,

you wrote:
I think that the reason that you find this situation unfair or unfortunate is because you haven't correctly surmised what convention demonstrations - especially the big ones like the Golden State Bonsai Federation convention - are about. They are not about highlighting the best talent, known or unknown. They are entertainment, pure and simple.

Truly, your preference for a movie is one starring Joe Parker, Alan Smith, Regina Poe and introducing Marty Callaghan? Never heard of those people? Well, the movie would flop. No one would come. That's why movies that want to be successful have "stars" like Tom Cruise, Meg Ryan, Mel Gibson, Sir Anthony Hopkins, etc... The only reason there are demonstrations at conventions in the first place is to draw interest and attendance. To entertain - and raise money. Nothing more.

Sorry, but Mr. Buford Ghondorff would be of little use to the GSBF in this capacity. It's a case of "giving the people what they want." It's what you and everyone else wants unless I miss my guess. Would you be excited to go to the GSBF convention featuring demos by Stan Zilles? No? Never heard of him? ;-)

Kind regards,
Andy Rutledge
zone 8, Texas