Is Bonsai Divisive?

bonsaial1

I am from the camp: "If somethings worth doing , its worth doing right".

Even Andy still refers to "bonsai enthusiasts". He knows that there those that like to do bonsai in the backyard. He knows full well that not everyone will want to produce artistic bonsai. He also knows full well that not everyone is going to agree with him.

The difference is, he has taken a stand. I have taken a stand. Not everyone has to take a stand when it comes to artistic bonsai. Everyone is free to practise bonsai any old way they please.

There are times thateven I like to do things that are a little silly and play with trees and flowers to make something that is just pleasing. But then there are times to be serious too. If a discussion thread has to do with artistic principles and why we need them, then I am on the side of the art first and formost. In an art known as bonsai, it makes no sense to me that someone that wants to do bonsai as a backyard activity with little thought to artistic principles would get into a fray about artistic bonsai and argue that someone is off base for advocating or sticking up for artistic work.

Most here, according to the jobs that we all posted, seem to come from a very diverse and educated background. We all had very professional jobs and are probably proud of the things we have accomplished professionally. I know I am. So if you feel good about your job, your statice in the world, why do so many hear seem to take a dim view on artistry in bonsai. Is not the logical choice to be in the league of artistic bonsai doers? To achieve the best possible bonsai according to our talent level?

Is this a direct correlation to your experiance level?
Will this mindset change over time?
Do you want it to?

I think over time this would change as the bonsai talent level is increased. When the good attemps out weigh the bad attemps, the confidence level is heightened, and one is more willing to stick ones neck out and experiment with the more fringe elements of bonsai.

Here on the forum I see the same people standing up for the same things over and over again. After a while, the person becomes a stereotype for that behavior, sort of like me. The difference being I have greater expectations for myself and everyone hear. While not giving excuses why my plants look like crap.

So is bonsai divisive? Which camp do you have your feet deeply embedded in?

Regards, Al

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imyerhukleberry

no. Bonsai is Bonsai. One can not create a Bonsai without premeditation. So, intending to create Bonsai is intending to create art as well.

Alasdair

i go for the relaxing bit, but have thought bout the 'mind expansion'. this would require a quiet environment, and short of taking a tree up a mountain with me, i dont think i'll be able to escape civilisation! lol

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jloeschner

I voted for relaxing with my trees. I do not have the talent or experience to create a wonderfully artistic bonsai, and I have enough stress from my job without having to create more in my hobby or relaxation activity. I started doing bonsai as a way to take a mini-trip away from all the worries in my mind. Why would I induce worry, anxiety and harsh self-criticism into this? To create a better tree for others to critique? To prove to the world that I am an artist? To prove to myself that I can? These are not good enough reasons, to me, to ruin what I have found to be a good relaxation activity.

I will never show my trees in a formal setting. Or at least I have no plans to at this time. The internet is as close to showing them as I will come, and I only show them to get suggestions. Why do I want suggestions if I only do it to relax? Because I DO like to learn new things, and when I have gone as far as I can with something, I like to get a more experienced opinion on what to do next. It is not so that I can learn how to create the "perfect" peice of art.

It seems that some people believe that bonsai should only be approached with a "do or die" frame of mind. When someone disagrees with this approach, they criticize the "backyarder" for accepting mediocrity and even ridicule them at times. If this make these "artists" feel good about themselves, well, good for them. I have no desire to change my outlook on bonsai at this time, and I am not weak-minded enough to just jump on the bandwagon because someone doesn't agree with how or what I do. Constructive criticism is one thing, destructive criticism is another.

I have no problem viewing bonsai as an art. I have no problem with the people who strictly view bonsai as art. As a matter of fact, I do agree that bonsai is an artistic effort. I just don't believe that everyone has to strive to be a master bonsai artist at all costs in order to validate their efforts. Life is short, do what you want with your bonsai and do not value others' opinions over your own beliefs. That is how I manage to continue to feel good about my "poor, pitiful" excuses for bonsai. They are mine, and as I grow in experience, their quality will either improve or be replaced with more quality trees...without me having to stress out about when it will happen or how.

I might change my view when I retire, but for now...well, they are just trees that happen to be in small pots that give me something to think about and do instead of worrying about that incident that took place at work. If they were magnificent specimens, they would still provide the same benefits. Who knows, maybe one day in the distant future, they may just be.

Regards,
John

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Will_Heath

I voted yes for the artistic aspect. I have always tried to do the best at whatever I do, bonsai is no exception. If I can't do it right, I don't want to do it at all, I will continue to strive for perfection. I may never get there but the journey is what matters.

So be it gardening, wood carving, chess, archery or bonsai, I will strive to be the best, to created the best, after all what is the sense in starting out fooling myself into believing that producing quailty craftsmanship is not important? Anything else sounds like a excuse not to try.

Will

FredL

Al, I don't think that it is one way or the other, though I think your speculation that our motves may change in what we emphasise over time and as we gain experience may be correct.

When I first got interested in Bonsai around age 13, I was just knocked out by the vision it presented. It seemed like a totally different way from anything I knew of seeing the world, nature, what was important....many things. Over the more than 50 years that have elapsed since than, I never quite lost that vision, even when my attempts were completely faltering and productive of nothing of value, when I had to give up collections that represented pretty good early efforts and during the long stretches in between. It is not the desire to compete in Bonsai Shows that drives me or the desire to create "art". I'd be willing to exhibit my trees when they get good enough - and I'm not going to need ribbons won at shows to know when that time comes- but I'd rather do so in order to share the "aha" experience that I first had than to compete with my fellow Bonsai lovers.

To me, bonsai speaks of a different world than the world of art competitions and the zeal to impose my will on the trees. Now, I learn alot from people for whom these are the primary motivations and I do not begrudge a place in the world of bonsai to them. I must admit, however, that I don't much like it when they seem to begruge me my place in it. I like to talk about connections of bonsai to other realms that seem to evoke in me similar feelings and attitudes. Once again, I have no problem with Bonsai Lovers who have no such interests, I merely wonder how their Bonsai can frequently be so marvelous but seem to have no meaning to them beyond expression of their artistic impulses. And, once again, I don't like it when they seem intent on invalidating my connection of other spiritual realms to the bonsai experience.

I think that there is more to the "Backyard Bonsai Experience" than meets the eye of the "Bonsai Artists". I think Bonsai Artistry is a huge and enormously valuable contribution to the Bonsai World. I don't think it's all there is, however, and I think other aspects are worthy of respect. My standing up for these other aspects aometimes gets me into an "anti-artistry" position that doesn't really entirely represent how I feel.

Fred

jportock

artistry- artistic quality, ability or work

artistic= 1. of art or artists 2. done skillfully and tastefully;aestetically satisfying 3. keenly sensitive to aestetic values

art- 1. human ability to make things;creativity of man as distingushed from the world of nature 2. skill; craftsmanship 3. any specific skill or its application 4. any craft, trade, profession or its principles 5. creative work or its principles; making or doing of things that display form, beauty or unusual perception...

I should get Websters in eletronic form so I can cut and paste .

The definitions above come from Webster's New World Dictionary of the American language (second college edition)

When I read these definitions it says to me that if we do bonsai we are practicing artistry (whether we like it or not). When it comes down to it what level of artistry you are on (or strive for) is based on the audience that the aestetics appeal to. I imagine that there is not one of us that practices this artform that goes into this thinking I want to make something that I do not ever want to look at.

I go out there with my trees because it makes me feel good. I will continue to do so as long as it makes me feel good. I hope that as I read here, attend classes and join a club I will increase the audience that my efforts appeal to because I increase my skill level. I strive to do this because I know that it will appeal to me more. I haven't been doing bonsai for 1 year yet but keeping my trees alive is already not enough for me, I want them to look like trees.

Well, thank you for reading my rantings (if you made it this far), please let me know whether or not you think I'm full of bunk

Respectfully,
JP

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Boingo

jloeschner said it perfectly.

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clrosner

I've been a professional artist for over 40 years. I do try to create and keep my trees artistically designed, but I am more interested in seeing that they are healthy, and the calmness of being a backyarder is all that I wish for in the waning years of my life.

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