Black Pine help

kingkong

Looking for black pine growth ideas. I was ready to give up growing bp in S Fl and I gave it one more try with 5 10' pots of nursery grown bp. Planted them in sandy soil with a large pit of gravel under each plant for positive drainage.2 of the 5 are growing beyond my expectations. Of the 5, they are the bp with shorter more compact needles. The long needled bp with more unruley growth are not doing well at all. What is the ideal environment for this beautiful pine?

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Vonsgardens

Kong,
Sounds like you guys have some special issues with JBP. Have seen some gorgeous ones from Florida, don't know if they are from a little farther north than you or not. I know Rob Kempinski has several really nice ones (several older imports that seem to have acclimated quite well). I have sold a couple of older trees to folks on the Atlantic side of the state south of Orlando, seem to be doing well (one at least, haven't heard about the other).

Again these are all well established trees, so the growth phase of development may be quite different. Do you get true "seasonal" candle growth, or is your closer to year round? I have often wondered if you could get extra cycles of budding and regrowth with the fairly neutral changes in day length that you have way down south. With the heat and humidity, do you have needle cast or other fungus problems on your rapidly growing trees? Soemthing that you see quite a bit of in Texas and southern California (with out so much of the humidity as well).

John

kingkong

Seasonal candle growth I would say yes. Most bp I see down here are infested with needle cast but I have seen this also in N Carolina on trees. I had a beauty from Washington, about 5 ' in a wood box. The soil was nursery mix with a clay ball I guess it was field grown at one time. It slowly withered. It was torture. Now I use a very grity planting media and it seems to be working on some. Do you think our 99%humidity will eventually do them in? Now our native pine, pinus ellioti can be fusy as well. Have one that is doing quite well in a container.

Vonsgardens

I think your situation with BP field grown up north and not completely purged of field soil before it gets moved down to your area is pretty typical. I have killed some very nice field grown styled black pine landscape trees by not removing the field soil and moving them up to bigger pots for display in the yard. Your approach of growing them yourself should be easier, or getting trees that have already been swapped into a real fast draining mix. The fungus' and their associated control strategies are a real key for you guys. I think that if you can keep the needles happy, the roots well drained and get regular candle growth that you should be successful. One of the other points is to try and keep the root systems as "cool" as you can by shading, placing in styrafoam or whatever system that you develop because I think that root over-heating will kill them really fast, especially with all of the humidity and hot nights.

You have a short needle version of JBP. Is it mikawa, or Sanshu(?) or something like that? Did you start them from seed? John

bnsaijim

Kong,

We have somewhat similar growing conditions with regards to humidity and they do fairly well for me. I don't theink RH% is a factor - but soil temps and sunlight issues are...

I am told they even grow in Hawaii... I'd defer to Rob Kempinski though for your area.

Here's my thoughts and experiences in Galveston TX (zone 9)

I've learned to ignore the books and the so called "experts" in TX that teach strictly by Japanese guides. I simply watch the trees and react depending on what the individual tree is doing at the time. Kind of like mowing the lawn in our climate- we never really get a long break...

My obervation on where pines tend to grow naturally are in richer moist soil and where their toes can be kept cool- i.e., here they occur in the richer clay loam soils near the bayous or further inland in the hill country where temps are a little cooler. Very "mid-line" trees- not mucky or overly rich soils- just where they ready access to moisture and some nutrients when tehy want them...

You've already leared- soil requires adaptation. The ones I planted in unamended Galveston "sugar sand" never really did quite as well as others in amended soil... Typically one has to compensate in some other regard to conter the soil's short comings...

Typically we are told to keep them in full sun- not necessarily true. They must be shaded during the hottest parts of the year- I use 80% cloth from May to September, allowing them full morning sun only. This is not just for potted bonsai- even the pines I have placed in the ground and watered religiously suffer. In my new place I hope to have some means to contend with this.

We are told to feed them organic only- that depends on your soil mix- nutrients are mostly nutrients. I don't think this is as much an issue- I feed with both, alternately, about every two weeks. I am less rigorous in the winter months but still keep at it as I suspect that many of them do not go totally dormant.

I try to keep mine evenly moist, watering 2-3 times at the hottest parts of the day. When it not so hot I try to make sure the soil is properly dried out.

While I've not tried shading the pots themselves- just overall shade- I think this may help in keeping the roots from "steaming". Pines in the ground get heavy mulching.

Your pines that are doing poorly just may be weaker, genetically in our/your climate. I've noticed the same trend but am not sure which is the chick and which the egg. The leggy ratty looking ones just seem to give up first.

If the better stock is thriving I would not complain too much! ;^)

Jim Stone
Santa Fe, TX

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Jim Stone
Seki Bonsai Studio
sekibonsai.com
Santa Fe, TX

kingkong

Good stuff Jim! My kinda common sense appraoch to this thing. Have a call in to Rob in Melbourn. Just got off the phone with Carlos C. He will be doing a Spanich crtique at the Fairchid Show this weekend. Will try to stop by Sat. Thanks again for the reply. I look forward to growing some bps in the ground in a protected cool environment.

bnsaijim

No problem. If you pick up any tips please pass them along. I still don't feel like I have this tiger by the tail!

Jim

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Jim Stone
Seki Bonsai Studio
sekibonsai.com
Santa Fe, TX

Vonsgardens

Hey Jim,
Do you tend to keep good color on your pines, a lot of the JBP's I've seen in full sun down around he Houston Galveston area are pale. We have cool enough nights (and maybe days too, 45 days over 90 but none over 100) that I keep mine really deep green year round. John

bonsaikc

John, my JBPs stay deep dark green all year long, and we get sometimes three weeks of 100+ temps almost every year. Of course, my latitude is decidedly north of the Galveston and south Florida ones.

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