Big Question

dbz12fan

Ron,
Looks like you broke your Bonsai New Years Resolution . Well, actually you said you wouldn't get involved in Andy's art threads, but this was close enough.

__________________
"Success demands understanding"-Andy Rutledge

Charles Bevan
Vero Beach, Fl

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RonMartin(deceased)

I think you got the closest to the real answer.

Attila

The "public" sounds good.

However, do you mean the same "public" who prefers the mallsai over anything else (and refers to bonsai as ming tree)?
After all, Home Depot sells mallsai because the "public" buys it. There is nothing wrong with that, but is this the public standard that you are aiming for?

Or maybe you mean the public who appreciates art (or nature) and seeks out esthetic experiences that may enrich their spiritual life.

Or you've meant the public, regular at bonsai exhibits, with an aquired taste for bonsai?

Who is the public ? (is Andy or Walter a member of the public?)

Just wondering.

Regards,
Attila

RonMartin(deceased)

So which part of the public that you mentioned does the most to further the cause of bonsai.
How does that movie about that Karate Kid figure into the equation. How many people has it brought to bonsai ;o)

bonsaial1

Ron, you are not compareing apples and apples here. Maybe apples and crab apples. Close, but not so far away that they are oranges.

The thing that differs bonsai from wall art or sculpture, is that the latter have tremendous value, while the former(bonsai) have value, just not seen as an investment here in the West.

People that buy art as an investment depend on the critic immensely. Critics make or break an artist just as DJ's did in the sixties. If you couldn't get a DJ to play your stuff what did you have to do, ( can you say Payola!).

Now if we had a person that was so infectious in our bonsai world, and that person was so contagious that everyone wanted to be praised by him, then that person could rock your bonsai world. Let's say that that person was Andy Rutledge. Andy is going to Boon's this weekend. Lets say that the whole world had never heard of Boon. I am sure that there will be many pictures in the BTOJ next month for the whole world to see. I am sure that Andy in his own way 'is' already that critic, and gaining speed expotentialy. I'll bet there would be those that will hear of Boon soon, if the haven't already.

On the other hand, if you are talking the general bonsai masses that go to an occasional show and pick apart every tree, that just boils down to taste, plain and simple. I have went to plenty of shows and have seen great masterpiece trees that if given the chance I would make some pretty big changes to suit my taste. But who am I? Nobody!

As far as I'm concerned, if you dabble in bonsai, you will be a critic! If you are no one, no one will care. If you are someone, someone may be listening!

Bonsai-al

__________________
It's about time that the proper respect be given to the fine art of balloon animals...

RonMartin(deceased)

Art is defined by the masses, refined by the knowledgeable and belittled by the uncomprehending.
An artist must first capture the imagination of the public. The public first must recognize that art then define it. A critic must not only recognize the art but understand it. Then and only then can he/she critique the art.
Sad to say, in bonsai the artists only talk to bonsai people. Bonsai people seem to always hide their trees from the public. Bonsai shows usually (by cost) exclude not only the masses but also most of the bonsai people. The critics seem to have only operable mouths and moving lips.
There is no basic core of instruction. No, if any, real schools. Not even many fake ones ;o)
Basically there are a few artists and a host of critics. But not a whole lot of promoters.
Many of us talk about these big Bonsai Organizations. Tie the whole world together in bonsai. But who will be the members of these organizations. What will they accomplish.
California has a thriving bonsai community. But it came about because people like John Naka ( and a whole host of others) convinced the public it was a good thing. The same happened in Florida because of Mary Madison, Jim Smith , Jim Moody etc. ( I know more names here but the idea is the same) The Carolinas had E. Felton Jones.
They did this by educating the public. They got out there to spread the word. They worked hard at it.
Now we only have artists that talk to the closed bonsai circuit and I hate to say it the CRITICS.
As a group we alienate the people that might want to get in. We don't encourage the beginner.
Mostly we shoot ourselves in the foot and wonder why it hurts. Is it any wonder bonsai hasn't progressed too far in the US in the past 50 or so years.
Wonder how far it would have gotten if we had just followed the footsteps of the "old guys"
Some how I think the boat has sailed and we are still on the dock deciding who will be on what deck.

bonsaial1

I don't know about that. I would think that most people find out about John Naka and others after thay spend some time reading books or find the internet or join a club. I don't think many people start doing bonsai because they accidentaly find out about John Naka, or anybody else you named for that matter. If you had some personal influance (relative and seen their collection) may make some differance. It would be interesting to have started a poll to find out just what the major inspiration to bonsai is.

I would submitt this time table:

Years in Bonsai - Probable inspiration

1-3 - Internet
3-5 - Mallsai gift
5-10 - Karate Kid Movie
10-20 - Bonsai show or related event
20 or more - Did they have plants then?

I am at a loss why everyone thinks bonsai has to go somewhere?

Why does it need to be compared to fine art, and why do we need to shout it out to the masses? I belong to a few clubs, display my trees in a few shows and some conventions now and then, attend workshops with prominent experts and enjoy my collection daily. If the whole bonsai world were to suddenly collapse around me, it would not change the way I do or percieve bonsai in the least.

__________________
It's about time that the proper respect be given to the fine art of balloon animals...

bonsaial1

In fact this is exactly why the US is where it is today, we have followed the footsteps of the old guys. It will be the "New Guys" of today that will take bonsai in the USA into the next millinium.

Take a look at the work of the "Old Guys" and tell me that it stacks up to what is being done in the world today.

Cheers, al

__________________
It's about time that the proper respect be given to the fine art of balloon animals...

RonMartin(deceased)

Setting in the middle of that thriving bonsai society I can understand why you feel that way ;o)