Big Question

RonMartin(deceased)

I am always amazed that bonsai is compared to the "fine arts" (ie. painting, sculpture, music, etc.)
As far as I can tell most "art" critics have taken, at least, some courses in the arts . Be it art history, art appreciation or what ever. They might not be able to paint or sing but at least they understand the concept. Well maybe anyway ;o).
Most of them have at least a BS in fine arts. (those that are listened to anyway)
Never heard of a course in bonsai appreciation. Never seen other than the most fragmented of classes on the "art of bonsai" Heaven forbid finding more than two people that agree on what good bonsai is.
So barring the lack of a "proper education" just what makes for a valid bonsai critic. How do they know what they know. What validates them.
It might sound like I am putting out a trick question. I am not.
We can define what an artist is. We do that all the time.
It is done by how many books the person writes. How many awards they have won. How many times they have been the major speaker at a convention. Like it or not that is the way it is.
No slam intended on what are called the current artists or masters. From what I have seen most of them do deserve the title.
I guess the big question is just who should be able to say it is bad bonsai. What , if anything , validates the critic.
And by what criteria should they judge. What is the standard.
Can the old "I know what I like" work as a guideline.
Like I said I am not trying to ask a trick question. I just want to get a few things straight in my own mind. It is for me,at least, an important question.


PS. I know that I said that my New Years resolution was not to respond to anymore of these "art" questions BUT in the case I did not respond, I asked the question ;o)

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David Yedwab

Well you better answer it, too! It's above my pay grade! Great question.

I'll take a crack at a piece of it.
The bonsai critic must have:
1. reasonable horticultural knowledge and/or experience, to be able to understand if a bonsai is being well cared for and is healthy. Otherwise they might think that a leaf bare maple in a winter show is a dead tree (an exageration but it makes the point). This knowledge would need to include whether it is trained to receive light properly to remain healthy, that the color is right for the species/variety, etc.
2. Have a reasonable understanding of design/art principles to know whether a bonsai looks well designed and is maybe even artistic.
3. Sould have some knowledge, if not skill, at the craft of creating bonsai.
And probably a lot of other things I left out like some experience ...

Now back to you Ron ...

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RonMartin(deceased)

Not back to me. I only have questions. Not answers. Not that smart
Maybe Andy will charge in with the answers.

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Attila

In my eyes, for a bonsai critic to be credible, he/she must have spent a considerable time (several years) studying all of the following:

Horticulture.

Bonsai masterpieces. What makes them being recognized as masterpieces? What was the intention of the artist in creating those trees? Listen (or read) to what the artist feels about a particular masterpiece.

Principles of classical bonsai design and understand the reasoning behind those principles.

Trees. Old trees. What is that deeply affects us when looking at them?

The language of visual arts and principles of design.

Am I asking too much?

Wishing lots of beautiful bonsai for the new year,
Attila

FredL

Ron, as you frequently do. you have posed an intereesting question.

I think that one of the things that is refreshing about the American attitude (which is far from unique to Americans - Please "Heavenly Father", don't let me get bogged down in THAT discussion again) is a degree of irreverence towards "experts". This can be very healthy and encourages a degree of self reliance and an entrepenurial spirit. In regard to Bonsai, it encourages a willingness to "just-do-it", to quote the Nike advertisement. Which means that, especially in this country, there is a general willingness to shoot off one's mouth without necessarily knowing what one is talking about. Also a willingness to develop oneself as self-taught in all arenas, including Bonsai.

This is far from all good, but it does have the result that most activities that catch on in this country develop with amazing speed, because in this country people are pretty good at looking at the realities of a situation and adjusting course regerdless of what the "experts" thought at the onset. In the free market of ideas, the best ideas DO win out.

In the realm of art, I am struck by what a closed little world it is and how the people in it defend the notion of "expertise". I am not as impressed by art "expertise" as much as I should be, I guess. Something that stays in my mind is the way in which Norman Rockwell was ridiculed when I was in college and is now generallyseen as a first rate artist.

I don't have the definitive answer to your question, but, these are some thoughts that occurred to me regarding it.

Fred

bonsaikc

I find that I am considerably less sanguine toward the "just do it" mindset of many bonsai enthusiasts. Why are we endlessly reinventing the wheel? "How do I make my own cut sealant?" "What can I use to avoid wiring my tree?" Discussions about "perched water tables" and using twine to tie trees into the pots, and every sort of experiment under the sun. How about we learn the basics and more of how to keep bonsai healthy and happy, and the principles of bonsai design from people who have done it successfully for years, and who learned from a long line of masters throughout the ages? When we have some mastery of these things, perhaps some of the experimentation is worthwhile. But why is it that everyone who reads one simplistic bonsai book in this country seems to want to be an expert?

I actually saw a post in another forum stating unequivocally that it was never necessary to root prune when repotting unless the tree was terribly rootbound!

Personally I have a tremendous amount to learn about the art and its practice. You can't be a good teacher unless you can also be a good student.

Chris

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FredL

Crris, back in my days in IT, I had a consultant from IBM who became my good friend tell me, "An expert is nothing but an ordinary guy with a brief case more than 50 miles from home.". This was a quote I loved so much that I used it myself on several speaking engagements of my own. It pretty much summed up our attiude towards "experts" back in my IT days and is an attitude I've carried over into other areas of my life, perhaps inapproprately. It is, however, an attitude that helps explain the huge success of Information Technology over the past few decades and why the US was such a uniquely favorable environment for it to develop in.

Now, Bonsai is not IT, but maybe that's part of the problem. Maybe if more people were willing to just get out and give it a try and thought of it as being primarily for their own private and personal enjoyment rather than as a kind of cult activity that has to be done "the right way", we'd be making alot more progress with it, at least here in the US. Maybe it needs to be demystified more and people given the attitude, "sure you can do it. It's not really so hard!", rather than the attitude that they can't really understand it without 20 years of total immersion and can't trust their own judgement in regard to what is beautiful and what is not.

I've been given lots of advice from people who are without question "experts". Certainly in THEIR minds, what with their years of experience and investigation. Yet, alot of their advice was directly contrary to what I found worked for me. Exactly the same as what I found in my IT days. And, I might add, the same was true back in my days at Rutgers, trying to understand what the "Art Appreciation" Professors were trying to teach me. I think the best advice is, "To thine own self be true" and take what the "experts" have to say with a grain of salt.

Best regards, Fred

jhill

""I guess the big question is just who should be able to say it is bad bonsai"
Ron,
I think I get where your coming from?I'm not big on all that
Sophisticated talk stuff, can hardly type, But my answer is
THE PUBLIC!!!

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jhill

OK
I didn't go to school for the arts or anything like that (did go for architecture though) and have gone to an art show before and seen some things that I loved but my wife who has been to some art schooling hated it (go figure) man by backspace botton is getting worn out ) anyhow like I said never been to school for art but I,, in my own mind know what art is to me. If I see something I like hey I like it who cares what my wife says, you know where I'm coming from?? This art stuff really gets to me sometimes. Go back look at to old trees in the old bonsai books then look at them now!!BIG change. With time everything changes. People look at things differently then I do, and maybe they look at it the same. wHO KNOWS. but in my mind I know what I like!! If it is not what they like so beit.

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