Best background: Horticulture or Art?

malhomme

That's not funny Cato! I lost my right arm in a farming accident.

And I lost my right eye playing a game of extreme pick-up-stix. So not funny!

--Jim

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SierraBonsai

Dont forget philosophy

bonsaial1

My personal view is that the art part comes into play much more when one starts to delve into the display aspect of bonsai. While there are many more artistic ideals that can be put to good use while styling trees, I have seen average bonsai made to seem better in the correct display, while great bonsai can be diminished in a poor display.

The horticulture side is a no brainer...

I think they benifit each other in the great scheme of things.

Carl, mind posting those pics of your Blood grass again, and one of the virtuals I made with a regular background. I think that photo goes a long way towards telling the story about artistic display. Who would have thought simple grass in a pot could stir that much emotion! (I reformatted my computer and lost well over 1200 pictures. Oops...)

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JLDoggett

Neither Arbor-culture or artistic ability are easy to learn. Both backgrounds can be a basis for a fine end product, when combined with patience.

People come to bonsai from both worlds, learn the other skill and go on to produce exceptional trees. I suspect it would be easier to start with arbor-culture, thus enabling the trees to live while you learn how to style. An "Artist" overdoing things can be more destructive than a "green-thumb" going slowly through the learning curve of styles.

rockm

My answer would be NEITHER--with alot of qualifications...

A formal background in either art or horticulture (or God forbid-both) can be a bit of a hinderance in bonsai. Since it is a very specialized form of horticulture, many things "bonsai" are counterintuitive. Chopping a trunk isn't really in the hort. books--neither is using lime sulfur to preserve deadwood. There are alot of other examples. That doesn't mean that a basic knowledge of how a plant works isn't necessary. It means you can actually apply your basic high school biology (if you paid attention) as a solid foundation. The most pertinent "real life" horticultural practices involved in bonsai are learned by hands on practice.

The same can hold true for the art part. While formal art training (if there is such a thing and artists take such courses) can help, it can also bind you to some preconceived ideas on how to make and appreciate bonsai. I took ART 101 through ART 300 (or whatever) in college. It hasn't really helped much in appreciating bonsai. Bonsai is very much an acquired taste. The formal art classes didn't really help me understand a literati pine at first sight. I thought those were pretty darn ugly when I first saw them--my wife still hates them. That appreciation took time and lookling at alot of other Asian art (another source of preconceived bonsai notions, but also a key to understanding it).

Bottom line, I think the best things you can bring to bonsai aren't formal educations in art or horticulture. They are a willingness to learn and the ability to learn.

John Dixon

I still think Will is correct. More "advanced" horticultural techniques like cuttings will require removing material from the bonsai/tree. Since the "art" technique usually produces cuttings, you need to know how to root them BEFORE you cut.

In order I think:
1)Basic horicultural techniques (watering,fertilizer)
2)Advanced horicultural techniques (cuttings, grafting)
3)Bonsai design

2 and 3 are learned very close to the same time, almost mutually. An example is the limiting of nitrogen and water in spring to reduce needle size on pine. I just feel that order is in the best interest of the student, and design is the most involved and never-ending study of the bunch. Without the first two the bonsai enthusiast will actually be a "tree taxidermist". My thoughts anyway.

Warmest regards,

John

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John Dixon

Si vis pacem parabellum

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bisco_bonsai

I think, from all these posts, the concensus is that a basic understanding of horticulture, along with some learned techniques specific to bonsai culture is the most important element for a beginner to bring to the table. It appears to me to be more difficult to take a tree from looking "cool" to being able to communicate some human-concieved quality of nature (see, I do listen andy ) to an experienced bonsai-viewing audience. Personally, I think just about anyone can make a cool looking tree with a little bonsai education, but it is the true bonsai artist who has the unique ability to get the trees to "speak" to an audience. This is something, I guess, comes with learning the "asian" (yeah, I said it) artistic principles behind bosai design and display. Maybe it isn't harder to learn, but I think that it is because there are so few people/books talking about this very important aspect of bonsai. Please feel free to disagree with anything I just said!
All the best,
JDL

cato42

Gee, Jim, sorry 'bout that; certainly didn't mean to upset or offend. Especially in light of the X-Stix thing. I take it all this means that it's your left eye that's better than your left thumb?

(And can I keep the bit about non-opposable thumbs?)

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Bone-sigh

The artistic side is what drew me to love bonsai. I knew nothing of horticulture when I started out, and still struggle to know the finer points of "when" to do "what" and "how" and "where". But, when it comes to the artistic side I am much MUCH more adapt. Needless to say in the beginning I killed many of my trees in the pursuit of the "art" side of bonsai.
So for me, the horticulture side has been (still is!?) much harder from me to be profiscient(sp?) in.

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