Beech early autumn colour?

WHITEPINE

Hi,

Does anyone know if the Japanese White Beech, Fagus crenata , goes into its autumn colours early. The leaves at the top of the tree seem to be turning orange and yellow. I know that this is the autumn colour, but given that its only 14 August, I thought that this might be a bit soon. I certainly hope it is only that and nothing more problematic.

Hope you don't mind the English spelling and phraseology, I think its nice to show the international nature of this community, even though I know that most are from the USA.

Best wishes
Stephen

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Glider

I think it's a bit early yet. I'm in the UK too and I haven't seen anything else, potted or 'wild' beginning to show autumn colour.

True autumn colour is usually triggered by a combination of changing day-length and reducing temperatures but so far, although very wet, the temperatures have been quite stable and the days haven't shortened enough to trigger such changes yet.

Beech usually hold their colour until the the temperature really begins to drop (usually around october). I think I would look for another cause at this time of year. Possibly a problem with the roots, given the amount of rain we've had this since May.

Good luck with it.

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Moleque_san

here in the sacramento, ca area and a bit up north-eastish Ive noticed alot of trees starting their fall process...which makes me wonder what fall and winter will have in store for us. Its been a very wierd year in regards to the seasons ans weather... I do hope all is well and good

WHITEPINE

Hi,

I have a large sycamore (non bonsai) growing in my back garden, and a very few dead leaves have started to gather at the bottom of the tree. However, I've taken precaustions and put a plastic bag at the base of the beech. Hopefully this will prevent the roots becoming soggy, as its raining again.

Basically summer didn't turn up in the UK this year, and instead we've had torrential rain all through. In one area, one month's worth of rain fell in one hour. I've never seen a summer like it , and I'm told its been the worst in 300 years - and thats only because nobody kept records before then.

On the other hand, the tress that have been planted in baked clay pellets have really thrived, and I will have to prune back hard to keep them in shape.

ps - Bought a Deshojo maple today - a good quality Japanese import. I've never bought one this late, it was the best one I've seen in a long time, so I felt I had to take my opportunity.

All the best
Stephen

Glider

At this time of year, many trees will begin to lose leaves from the first flush they put out in spring. The leaves of most trees have a fixed life span and over time they become less efficient at doing what they do through wear and tear, insect attack, wind/sun damage, the build up of non-soluble toxins in the cells that the plant can't remove. Eventually, the leaf just 'wears out'.

These 'first flush' leaves will usually just wither and be shed, but will usually not change into autumnal colours. Most will just turn brown, some will stay green but none will have been subjected to the seasonal changes (particularly cooler temperatures) that triggers the breakdown of chlorophyll.

It's raining in London too, which sucks. I just cut the timber for two more 2m display benches I'm putting up and now it's all wet, I'll have to wait until it dires out again before I can treat it and screw it together.

It certainly has been a strange summer. I'm hoping this odd weather doesn't signal a vicious winter.

Whitepine, re your beech. You could slope the pot by putting a block under one end. The will increase the relative height of the water column in the pot and will really help it to drain better.

Congrats on your new deshojo too.

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WHITEPINE

Thanks Glider,

I'll put something under the beech today, just in case it has been waterlooged. I read that beeches needed a lot of water, so in addition to the rain, I watered it quite aggresively too. However, its growing in a quick draining soil. The leaves aren't falling, they're just turning yellow and orange at the top. I've only had it for about 4 months, so I'm not sure if this is normal or not.

Thanks for the congrats on the Deshojo. Not the ideal time to buy, in fact I've never bought at this time of the year before. I usually buy two or three a year, but next year I'll probably only buy one - hopefully a black pine.

Stephen

Glider

Some trees react to a change in location and situation (look at serissa for example). It stresses them for a bit, but they usually adapt well enough. If you've had it for four months and it's only showing a few yellow leaves, I wouldn't worry too much. Moderate the watering a bit and it should be fine.

When it's said that a tree 'likes a lot of water' it really means they are just more sensitive to a lack of water. In the vast majority of cases the differences amount to a narrow margin of conditions around the roots that ranges from 'damp' to 'moist'. Except true swamp and bog growers, no tree likes their roots to be actually 'wet' for long.

Roots grow in the air spaces between soil particles. The ideal environment for roots is saturated air rather than water. Our aim is to keep the potting substrate (whatever we use) moist enough that the air in the spaces remains saturated (100% relative humidity). This is why the particle size of potting substrate is important.

Water is a strange substance with odd characteristics that we take for granted because it’s so common (e.g. it’s the only one in its chemical class to exist in a liquid state between 0o and 100o C. All others in the same class are gas). Water is both adhesive (sticks to other stuff) and cohesive (sticks to itself, which is why it exists in a liquid state).

When we water our trees, water adheres to the individual substrate particles. If the particle size is too big, the water is spread too thin to keep the air saturated (it will evaporate too quickly). If the particle size is too small the water adhering to each particle will also cohere to itself, filling the spaces and the roots drown.

The ideal size means that when watering, the air spaces fill temporarily, but the cohesion of water to itself means that water draining will pull out water from the spaces (pulling in fresh air), leaving each particle with a layer of water adhering to it and this evaporates slowly into the spaces keeping the air in the space at 100% RH. At 100% RH the water adhering to the particles won’t evaporate, but as the roots take water up, the RH drops and water will then evaporate into the spaces to make up the difference down a humidity gradient.

As well as being adhesive (sticks to other stuff), water is cohesive (sticks to itself). This means that that water in any given porous medium behaves like a column. The taller the column, the greater the downward pressure (i.e. water at the bottom of the column is being pushed down by the mass of the water above it, but water at the top is also being pulled down by its cohesive bonds with the water below it).

What this means for bonsai growers is that other things being equal (i.e. potting substrate) a tall pot or deep pot, will always drain more effectively than a shallow pot.

The upshot is that If your beech is in a shallow pot, it's roots will stay wetter for longer after watering (evaporation notwithstanding) than if it was in a deep pot. This is why tilting the pot (i.e. increasing the height of the water column) will assist drainage.

Knowing this stuff about the adhesive and cohesive nature of water helps us to adapt our substrate and watering to suit individual conditions. For example, if we use a tall cascade pot, we can use a finer potting substrate to compensate for the increased drainage, or water more frequently. Conversely, if we use a very shallow pot, we can use a larger grain size to improve drainage.

Sorry for going on a bit. I’ve cut and drilled the timber for two more display benches, but it’s raining and I can’t put them together until it stops, so I’ve nothing better to do .


Re your deshojo: If it's a good tree, worth the money and you really like it, the only appropriate time to buy it is 'now'

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wabashene

Hi Stephen,

I have several beech in the ground on my allotment in Hampshire - some large-ish pre-bonsai and some as a spring planted hedge stock - and they are all looking a bit ratty as well as regards the old leaves but are still pushing out new ones here and there.

In particular the allegedly copper ones have gone green and I'm putting it down to the alternating 3 weeks of monsoon followed by 1 week of Sahara conditions we've been having locally.

Knowing that you've had a bit of bad luck in the past makes me think it might be worth just lifting it out of the pot gently to have a look-see at the roots as well.

You never said if you've re-potted this tree or checked the roots after purchase earlier this year in quite a small blue pot iirc.

I'd suggest that even a light duty emergency re-pot wouldn't do a tree any harm this time of year esp if there is a problem discovered - like being massively root bound or something.

What are the "baked clay pellets" you're using? Been to Tesco?

TimR

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WHITEPINE

Hi all,

You're absolutely right Tim, you can't beat the old Tesco's Premium cat litter, I just hope they don't find out we're using it, or else they'll call it "Tesco's Premium Bonsai medium" and double the price!!!

This is the first year I've used it, and my trees have been growing like wildfire - especially my Trident. I swear its put on two years worth of growth this season. However, all the rain might have had something to do with that.

I'm becoming less worried about my beech now. I'm watching the situation very closely, but at the moment, the leaves don't seem to be getting any worse. The tree has put on some decent growth, and its throwing out new buds, which is encouraging, but having said that, my pine was sprouting new needles too - and look what happened to that. I only finished de-wiring it last week. I bought it wired from top to bottom, but I didn't realise that parts of the wiring was cutting in. I've stopped watering as much as I previouly did, and I will lift it out of its container if there is any more deterioration. On Gliders advice, I have also tilted the container.

It may be false optimism, but I feel in a much better positon now to deal with any emergences. I will try to post a couple of pics tomorrow.

Stephen