Bald Cypress Article

vince

Adam, following your thread about using a coping saw, very interesting, could i post a few tip's for guy's who have never used them? As i am a carpenter myself for many years. First, if putting in a new blade keep the teeth facing the handle, use it in a pulling motion, not like a normal saw, pushing, this will keep the U frame under tension. The two spurs? sticking up, can be twisted to any angle, just make sure they are in line, this lets you cut at any angle, regardless the direction of U frame, this will give you a clean cut. HOPE THIS HELPS. Cheers.

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Adam_MA

Great tips!
Thanks Vince


Adam

BonsaiMon

Behr.. I'm sorry I didn't see this thread earlier. My computer was on the blink for the last month, which may had had alot to do with missing it..

Very interesting technique. I haven't had the situation of growing on a baldy from a sapling to achieve a large trunk. I have enjoyed collecting them from the bush when I needed a large trunk. My main concern is the dormant time the tree would spend in this type of growing condition. While in S. Fl. the bald cypress is dormant maybe two months if there are cold snaps. There were years I defoliated Jan-Feb to simulate winter leaf drop. Different story in the mountains of Tn. .. nearly six months of cold. Not ta say it will cause fungus or assrt other problems but it does set the stage. You replenish the water often adding oxygen and keeping it from being stagnant

During the summer heat I have placed trees in trays 2' deep and kept them soaked and the trays full, with a day or two of draining. No problems with this.

I feel now, having read your experience with this method of growing, that as it may not be for everyone .. it is being done succesfully. I think I may just give it a whirl next spring. I plan on getting many seedlings to enhance a forest I'm working on.. will have loads of extras...


Thanks for posting.

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peace,
tom stoute

http://bonsaiinsights.spaces.live.com/

grampz

Mr. Tom [Mon],

Thanks so much for your response...I have been hesitant in sharing this method of 'growing on' the trees because of the many things I have read on this and other forums warning against it, although I have never been able to find out what method these folks had bad experiences with...I too have been fortunate enough to collect several nice trees from the wild, as a matter of fact, I learned of this method during a collecting trip on the Mississippi south of New Orleans, when I found a 1/4 inch diameter sapling that I really liked the shape of...I made a comment that 'I hope this one is still here in a few more years'...My cajun friend LaMoigne Bergeron, told me to go ahead and dig it up and he would show me how to thicken it, and develop a good flare at the base...I did and he did, and I have been thankful ever since...I no longer have the opportunity or physical ability to collect trees from the wild, but the bald cypress still remains my favorite speices for bonsai, and this method of 'growing them on' at least gives me the opportunity to develop a nice tree from nursery stock...

As I stated in the post about the method, I have used this in more northern climates, but one needs to keep the water level down, [no standing water] during the winter months, and I would insulate the pot with fiberglass insulation...Here in San Antonio, and in New Orleans, this was not a problem...

And yes, you are absolutely correct...

I am adding water daily during the growing season, and often enough during the dormant period to maintain a good supply of oxygen to the root system...According to LaMoigne the bald cypress does develop the enlarged base much better when slightly rootbound and consistantly wet...In my observations of trees growing in the ground as landscape trees, and along riverbanks and swamps, I think he just may be 'spot on' with this statement...

I am glad to here you may give this method a try...

I do hope you will also have a control plant or two, so you can see if there is an obvious difference, and perhaps keep us informed of your results...

Regards
Behr

BonsaiMon

Behr,

Well, .. I'm glad you posted this method.
For me this is another of those general rules for bonsai taken to an unfounded extent.
'Don't allow your tree to set in water for any extended period.'
So in so said .. so in so has been doing this for 20 yrs or more .. so, it must be right. Well.. it is right... for so in so..
I have had problems with other species because of poor soil drainage.. jus carried this over to include all species..

In the dormant cycle you change the water also.. I was thinking .. due to lack of leaves the water level would become constant and stagnant.. .
Does the insulation prevent freezing of the soil
or is it to keep the soil temp constant, preventing less freeze and thaw?
Grampz said,
"According to LaMoigne the bald cypress does develop the enlarged base much better when slightly rootbound and consistantly wet..."
Ripsgreentree talked of this process also..
Over the years I found that the Bald and Pond cypress don't mind sitting in water. I wouldn't do it for to many days though .. heaven knows, I don't want any root rot.. lol..

During the 4 yrs do you prune at all or just concentrate on growing trunk girth and leave the stylin for later?
After four years ?? do we go to a larger container performing the same operation as we did on the beginning stock?
Or Root prune and return to same size container?

so many questions..
tanks again..

__________________
peace,
tom stoute

http://bonsaiinsights.spaces.live.com/

grampz

Mr. Mon,

You have asked some very good questions...I cannot answer all of the questions you have raised, but I will do my best to answer the ones I can...

Actually it would be impossible for me to 'change the water', but when the tree is in the dormant cycle I do NOT try to maintain a water level above the surface of the soil...Here in Texas we sometimes get a good amount of rain during the winter months, and the tree will often stand in water for a couple weeks or more...I sometimes dip the water out, and only water when the soil dries on the surface, but the dormant period here is also just 2 or 3 months...I also dip the water out and let it remain without standing water for several days when I get a large number of mosquito larva…

When growing in the colder climates the insulation served two purposes...As you have suggested it did help to even out the freeze and thaw, however it did not prevent freezing...I did wrap the insulation around the pot, but also placed a layer on top of the soil around the trunk in somewhat of a tent shape, and covered this with plastic to help with run-off of rain and snow...In Kansas and Missouri we did have extended periods during the winter when the temps were above freezing, and I would try to uncover the soil and water the tree during these times, but no standing water...[as I stated in my original post concerning this method, I did get caught a few times 'with my trousers in disarray' and had a sheet of ice form on the top of the soil, however it did not seem to hurt the tree]...I grew up in Southeast Missouri [sometimes called 'Swamp east Missouri'], and I have often seen bald cypress in the wild, standing in frozen water...

I concentrate on growth...I have found that if you reduce the tree by trimming the top, it certainly cuts back drastically on development of the lower part of the tree...As you are aware the bald cypress is very apical dominant, however the tremendous growth of the top is what feeds the base…[see attached photo of the tree I am currently working with, it is 6 feet 5 inches tall with a base in excess of 2 ¼ inches]…I have only tried to maintain a styling on one tree grown in this way, the afore mentioned ¼ inch collected sapling…This tree reminded me of the famous ‘Vaughn Banting flat-top cypress’ in the way it curved and had several forks in the top, and not desiring to chop it later I tried to maintain the shape with continued pinching back…I used a much smaller container only about 16 inches in diameter…The growth of the tree was definitely sacrificed by doing this, and in reality I probably would have been better off ‘growing it on’ in the more conventional way, although it did gain a very nice fluted base after 3 years in the ‘water pot’…

Well, you have got me on this one…I have no experience on using this method beyond four years, nor have I ever re-potted a tree grown this way, other than harvesting, root pruning, doing a trunk chop, and potting in a free draining soil, in much the same manner I would on a collected tree…I have found the root system to be much better with many feeder roots closer to the trunk than with collected trees, and therefore much quicker to respond to training and adaptation to a proper size pot…I do plan to do the trunk chop on the pictured tree BEFORE I remove it from the current container, if the container last long enough...I have not tried this before, but I think I will get quicker growth if I do not prune the roots at the same time as the chop...The largest tree I have achieved using this method measured only 9 inches diameter at the widest flutes, and was 4.5 inches diameter 1 foot above the soil surface…It was about 13 feet tall when harvested, and grew in the water for a little over three years…Perhaps you will be the one to carry this growing method into larger trees…

Regards
Behr

Attached Images

bld-cyp5.jpg (69.3 KB, 65 views)

spoonman

wow i just got one of these today at work, one of my workmates was nice enough to give me one that he has grown from seed, its about 5 years old, and its almost a natural bonsai, amazing taper and movement in the trunk and really well developed branches for a tree that hasnt been touched. will post a pic tommorrow.

__________________
"Little laurel trees, your roots can find
No mountain, yet your leaves extend
Beyond your own world into mine
Perennial wands, unfolding in my thought
The budding evergreen of time."
-Kathleen Raine, The Trees in Tubs

BonsaiMon

Thanks Behr, your answers are appreciated and I am sure come spring in my nursery there will be a few seedlings setting in water awaiting the big pump up. My only concern is here in Virginia Beach we ge some hard freezes lasting for days.( 5 gallon buckets frozen solid) Instead of insulation I'm privy to mostly sandy soil and digging a hole and setting them in is not out of question. Thanks again and I'll keep ya posted on the progress.

__________________
peace,
tom stoute

http://bonsaiinsights.spaces.live.com/

grampz

Mr. Mon,

I personally think this is a wonderful idea for the colder climates...Since you are using a container with no drainage, sitting down in the ground should not make any difference other than helping to protect from freezing...If it were me I think I would go ahead and dig the hole and put the container in from the 'get-go'...this would also help to protect a plastic container from exposure to ultraviolet light, and therefore potentially help to extend the life of the container...Just may give this a try myself on my next tree, if I am in a situation where I might be staying in one place long enough to grow it out...

Regards
Behr