Auction Bashing II

bonsaial1

This has got to be the best discription of a bonsai I have ever read. The best image to ever be on Ebay!

This has to be the line of the century: You may have never heard of me but you will in the future.

hummm... I'm still trying to figure out why that apex is leaning so far to the left? why is it not growing up? Who is the professional bonsai artist and why didn't the person list their name?

Thanks Al

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...&category=20524

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I been kidding the last seven years.
no.... really!

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Carl_Bergstrom

Hi Al,

Yep, this tree is by the same fellow who did the white pine that I posted to the original auction thread yesterday...and indeed this one that you've put up is the auction that led me to that pine.

The text really is astonishing...and it gives me an idea for the next BonsaiTALK contest. He writes "I would like to challenge anyone out there who has a better semicascade juniper like this for a similar price." My own opinion - which we could put to the test - is that we've got at least a dozen regular posters on here who could better it working with nursery stock that cost half that price. (For that matter, we've got a dozen regular posters who could improve the tree shown considerably, just by wiring it properly and then bending aesthetically, thereby providing a better tree at exactly this price.)

Folks can say that this is good and fine, that you and shouldn't complain about this sort of behavior because after all it's what the market will bear (not bare!), and so forth. Well sure, in a free market system this fellow has every right to sell his trees for whatever the market will bear (providing he doesn't run afoul of mail fraud laws, etc., in his hyperbole). But people who are seriously concerned about bonsai as a hobby or an artform have every right - and every need, I would argue - to try to educate the buyers so that they can read between the lines and make well-informed decisions of their own as to whether this is art or even good craft that the seller is providing.

I only wish ebay still allowed feedback without purchase. Since it doesn't, the best we can do is start small, on boards like this, with discussions like there.

Best regards,
Carl

P.S. A professional bonsai artist is one who makes money producing and selling bonsai. If, hypothetically, one produced and sold bonsai such as the one shown on an auction site such as ebay, one could call oneself a professional bonsai artist. Some might question the "artist" part or even the "bonsai" part, but the professional part is indisputable.

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In love with trees

Jay

I need your advice… I have a thought on informing the vast EBay Bonsai buyer market on true knowledge about EBay bonsai. We all know that there are both legitimate trees and supplies on EBay and those that are questionable to say the least.

I would put up two auctions, one starting at $1.00 the other at say $49.99. Both bargain hunters and mid-priced buyers would possible look. In the copy I would place the info, links if possible, to BonsaiTalk and to BTO if Andy thought it proper. The only purpose of the auction would be to inform the buyer as to where to go for good information on Bonsai. I would not ‘Bash’ anyone auction of anyone tree at auction. In fact I would hope no one would buy the that I was auctioning.

I am not sure yet how I would word the auction(might ask for your input), and what exactly I would post to be auctioned. The bigger question is; Do you think anyone will go to the links I will mention? And; Do you think I will be inviting far too many people to the sites?

I will give the group some time before I decide to go ahead with this. I will not do it if Matt or Andy thinks it incorrect for their site.

Your thoughts
Jay

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A Bonsai student living with his trees at N 44.37 W 77.49...
Think before you act... then think again... no good comes from rushing

FredL

There is no question that this is a pretty crappy piece of work for the amount asked for it. But, the quetion is, will anybody buy it for this price asked or is this offering just a minor waste of time for all the e-bayers looking at it and a bigger waste of time for the person offering it for sale.

There is available lots of books and other sources of information for anybody seriously interested in learning about bonsai. It certainly wouldn't take a lifetime of study for any reasonably intelligent person to see that this offering isn't worth anything like what is being asked for it. I have no sympathy for anybody that would purchase this item for the price asked. Gullible fools are just as reponsible for the excesses of e-bay as the unscrupulous sellers seeking to take advantage of them. Sloth makes the list of deadly sins as well as greed.

Fred

Geodude

Jay,
I think you have a great idea, but I don't know if it'll help all that much. I don't think people looking for bonsai on Ebay are looking for information. If they were, they would search the internet and find the sites you mention (like most of us here). It's kind of like preaching about good bonsai next to one of those mall carts. Would people those people ooh-ing and ahh-ing listen to you? A few may but most would ignore you as a grouchy old fool (maybe not old) .

Beside, you do realize this is a money losing proposition for you... listing fees, and auction fees if someone knucklehead bids on your $49.99 auction.

If you wanted to, you can make a disc with links to the sites and sell it as "Bonsai Secrets of Masters" - disc full of top secret information on how to create your own masterpiece... list it at $0.01 and charge $15 for shipping .

Happy 2004 to everyone.

__________________
Paul

"Life will be sweet like a rhapsody
When I paint my materpiece"

Carl_Bergstrom

Hi Jay,

It's a nice idea, but I don't think it would be allowed under Ebay's general policies. Ebay's entire user agreement is more than I want to dredge through tonight, but I suspect that this would be prohibited under the following or similar:

From http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies...sign-posts.html

eBay Policy

Sign posts are listings primarily meant to direct a user to a seller's store or other listings. Sign posts are not allowed.



See also http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/listing-links.html


Best regards,
Carl

__________________
In love with trees

Tony

I like how he says

"I was originally going to keep this one in my own collection but I need to keep the money flowing to expand my business."

You gotta love this comment! It shows us that he truly loves his bonsai but he is willing to sacrifice now to grow his business. Not to better himself, not at all. He has to sacrifice to bring even better bargains to future ebay bidders and the bonsai community in general. He's quite an industrious fellow. He's wraped up the American dream, mom and apple pie in a nice little bonsai package. How can you not bid on something like that?

Tony

Jay

Carl, I do not think it would be a problem with ebay. I would put up for auction a real item... either a tree or a pot. I would sell the item if someone bid. It would be a legitimate auction.

What I would do is place in my copy a line or two.. something like..

"For good free advise and direction go to BonsaiTalk." EBay is concerned that you might try and link to something that would sell an item without their getting their money. Being I am not directing anyone to a 'selling' site I think it would be permitted.

I would list the item as Japanese Juniper Bonsai -w/Help

or Bonsai Pot w/help

or something like that.... I am willing to pay for the listing...it isn't much but still do not know if it is likely to do harm by bringing too many people here....still have not heard Matt or Andy's thoughts

Jay

__________________
A Bonsai student living with his trees at N 44.37 W 77.49...
Think before you act... then think again... no good comes from rushing