Ashe Juniper

Tincan

Everywere I look on the net everyone says that Ashe junipers are hard to transplant

but no one has a good explenation on how exactly to transplant them successfuly.

Also if one were to be transplanted not so well, will they come back next spring?

What else can be done to transplant these better?

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grampz

Mr. Tincan,

The ashe juniper [Texas Mountain Cedar] is actually not much more difficult to 'transplant' than most other junipers in this area...The most important considerations are to use a very free draining soil, and only do either top work or bottom work in any one season but not both...

The real 'difficulty' with the species is successful collecting...If this were not the situation we would see many more nice collected specimens in the shows...Admittedly there are some nice ones that have been collected and with proper care have survived to become beautiful bonsai, but unfortunately these are the exception rather than the rule...

Regards
Behr

__________________
As the Master departed the workshop,
he could have sworn he heard some
one saying rather loudly...
"I thought he would never leave"
San Antonio Bonsai Society, Inc.

Tincan

But what can I do once they have been collected poorly

Ralph

This is what a member of my club has said in regards to collecting this species:
Collect the root ball intact with colece clay (spelling, but you will know what I mean). Transplant into your container, drill several holes through the clay ball so that the root system can receive water. After two years you can begin to reduce the clay rootball down.
Keep looking on the net especially in the archives. There was an extensive article done on collecting this species, although i have not been able to find it for some time. If anyone out there still has a copy of this article email us both, or let us know where we can find it.

__________________
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Bonsai trees burst buds anew
Spring is upon us!


-Paul S.

grampz

Mr. Tincan,

My sincere apologies if this sounds a bit too harsh...My intention is to educate rather than criticize...I would assume you are referring to one or the other of these 2 trees, and possibly both...Check this find out...or Karate Kid Cliff Juniper

These are certainly both nice looking material, but perhaps you did notice most of those that have been doing bonsai for a while did not respond to the thread, other than 'rockm' which informed you on the first one that they are notoriously difficult to successfully collect...Spending some time studying the growing habits of the species, and what others have tried before you pick up the 'collecting' tools is always a good idea...

The ashe juniper typically is found growing in a very alkaline, dense, cleache clay with much limestone content, and in the majority of cases has a considerable root spread as it searches for moisture and water...Fine roots [the ones that supply the trees needs] are usually located quite a distance from the trunk...Although I have never read or heard of a study of this, I do believe like the 'California Juniper', this species has the ability to survive for a time on the moisture in the surrounding air...I would suggest searching the several articles Mr. Al Keppler has posted on collecting and after care of the 'California Juniper'...He has certainly had the opportunity to learn from the 'best known authority' on that species...

I do not currently have an ashe juniper in my collection, but I am certainly on the lookout for one that has good characteristics for bonsai, and a location that will allow me to properly collect it...The advice Mr. Ralph suggested may work well...There is a member of the Austin club that has successfully collected many, but also with considerable failures...I do not remember the name, but I hope some of the members will help me out on that...If you truly have an interest in using the ashe juniper for bonsai, and not just searching for free material, he would be worth contacting...Austin is not that far away...I believe the article Mr. Ralph is referring to, [I too can no longer find it] was the result of the efforts of this Austin club member...

I have successfully collected 2 in the past, and had several failures...I am by no means an authority on the subject...The successful method I used was to basically in early spring, excavate [uncover] several of the larger roots in close to the trunk, apply a copper wire 'tourniquet' very tightly, scar the cambium in a few places above the tourniquet, apply rooting hormone, and cover with sphagnum moss and topsoil...This was then kept moist with visits to the site, and collected the following December/January by severing the large roots below the tourniquet, after new feeder roots formed at the 'ground layer' site...This takes a lot of work, and makes one a bit more 'choosy' about the tree they are collecting...

Concerning your inquiry...If they are losing the color or beginning to dry this time of the year, your best bet would be to determine if the trunk is suitable to use for a 'phoenix graft'...I do wish I could give more hope or a suggestion on what would help the tree to survive, but alas the proper collection is as important as the aftercare with this species...

Regards
Behr

__________________
As the Master departed the workshop,
he could have sworn he heard some
one saying rather loudly...
"I thought he would never leave"
San Antonio Bonsai Society, Inc.

Vonsgardens

Behr,

Vito Megna from the Austin area was "famous" for them, and used to collect a lot of them- I hear he actually had a digging crew do them. I have one of his trees that I got from Howard Smith a couple of years ago, it has been styled twice and still needs to have the last 1/3 of the original clay soil removed.

John Miller another Texas Bonsai Icon also has collected a number of them. I was fortunate to pick up a tree that he collected in the mid seventies, that wasn't styled until 2005 by Marc Noelanders. I spoke with John at the LSBF convention ( a great time) this weekend, he said he dug it, and then gradually changed out the soil over time- about 30 years after collection it was then styled. (certainly more time than necessary, but certainly a testimonial for not jumping to style..)

I'll post a few picks when I get it out of the trailer.

John

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rockm

"Vito Megna from the Austin area was "famous" for them, and used to collect a lot of them- I hear he actually had a digging crew do them"

Living near a university town, he did have few big guys that helped him dig stuff and he had a packing crew to ship big trees. He had back problems that nagged him until he couldn't deal with big trees. He's no longer doing bonsai though. He had some collecting secrets for many species that I'd love to be in on. Wish he'd write a Southern version of "Bonsai from the Wild." I'd buy three or four copies

Thomas_J.

John,
Good to see you made it home safe and sound. That tree you gave me to "plant in my yard", I believe you said it was a redwood, in the hurry to get my two trees that I was selling at the vendors out and into my truck along with my show trees, I foolishly forgot it sitting there on the vendors table . Sorry about that. I hope somone else made use of it.

As for the ashe juniper, I've not heard anyone mention what the collectors of those trees consider the most important part and that is to mist the tree from above constantly until it starts budding. This was one thing Vito did that gave him great success with his trees. The soil was actually covered up with plastic and the watering was done through misting. A few others in the Dallas club followed this routine and they too had good success.

__________________
Thomas J.

grampz

Mr. Mark, I would certainly agree fully with this statement...I realize there are collectors that have spent many years and much effort developing a successful method, and to an extent I understand not sharing those techniques when one is in the business of collecting and selling trees...We can both hope that since Mr. Vito is no longer in that business perhaps he will realize the potential to make a few extra dollars selling his knowledge...

Mr. John, I did not mean there are 'no' ashe juniper bonsai around, but rather with the potential for good trees there would be many 'if' they were not so difficult to survive collection...Congratulations on having purchased a couple nice ones...I look forward to seeing the photos...And much thanks for sharing the information about removing the clay soil...It is bits of wisdom such as this that will help others to be successful in the future...

Mr. Thomas, I had also been aware of the value of mist in the survival of this species, which is why I mentioned the california junipers ability to survive on the moisture in the air...I did not realize that 'constant' mist had been used, and had not heard of covering the soil with plastic, both of which could be very critical information...Thank you for sharing these things...

Regards
Behr

__________________
As the Master departed the workshop,
he could have sworn he heard some
one saying rather loudly...
"I thought he would never leave"
San Antonio Bonsai Society, Inc.