The art thing ???

RonMartin(deceased)

Spent a lot of time lately thinking about this "What is art thing" . Not, as many of you know, the most favorite of all topics for me.;o)
I have a customer that is a professor at the College of Charleston. Nice guy, good at explaining things. Any way he stopped by a while ago. I asked him point blank what art is. He thought about it for a while and came up with "Art is a pleasing composition that evokes an emotion in those that view it"
Wow, I thought that was pretty good. I'll have to save that quote for the next time that the "what is art" thing comes up again on this forum.
But then I got to thinking. Anger, boredom, disgust are also an emotion. If these are the emotions that are brought forth is it then "art"
I think that most would agree that "cookie cutter" bonsai can be boring, Mallsai can get most of you angry. Are these then art ?
The "pleasing" part is up to interoperation. That could mean almost any thing. One could be pleased that the composition worked and one could also be pleased that a competitors composition failed. And there is a whole range of different things in there.
Confusing to say the least.
But that brings me to the hidden question here.
Just about everyone here can define art. Maybe not in words but in the confines of your own mind you can.
So what I want to know is how does one create art. I have heard on many occasions "that is not art". But to the best of my knowledge I don't think that I have ever heard "this is how one creates art"
That last sentence above is an interesting one. Wonder how many of the posters to the "art" threads will try to finish that sentence.
Just how would I go about creating a work of art. I know that I can post a picture of a tree and find out real quick if it is art or not. But how do I create an "artful" tree to post in the first place.
Any ideas ;o)

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grampz

Wonderful question Mr. Ron...I don't have an answer for you, but I will be watching to see what some of the others have to say...My guess is this 'art' thread won't get near as many responses as some of the others have...

I can't agree with the "pleasing" part of the definition, but the part about "evokes an emotion in those that view it" I definately agree with...The problem I am having with the majority of the "art" discussions on this forum is that some seem to have appointed themselves the 'official viewer for all'...I am thinking that we should be qualifing our discussions of "art", and should be using the term 'marketable art'...There is a major difference in my opinion...

Regards
Behr

Attila

Ron,

You know exactly how since you are doing it for a long time.

Example: You decide to create a forest planting. When you create the forest in a pot, you are doing art in the purest form. One can create art incidentally (by accident), like taking a picture which later turns out to win a photography contest (a little later about that), but in your case you are using little trees and a pot and all the tricks you can come up with in order to evoke the image of a forest.

If you just wanted to plant those trees in the pot, without the purpose of creating the image of a forest, you would not be doing art. You would be planting the trees to watch them grow and enjoy the leafs and flowers and whatever you like about them. But when you use those trees to create a certain image in your mind, you are doing art.

(the other day I've read that internet pictures from a certain prison were displayed in one of our modern art museums. they were regarded as modern art, although the people who created them weren't aware of that at the time. whether or not that is art, is very controversial, but there is no such controversy when you are creating a forest)

cbobgo

I'm not sure I agree with the definition either, but I don't claim to have a better one.

Not all art is pleasing - at least not pleasing to everyone. I saw alot of stuff at the Chicago Museum of Contemporary Art that I could not distinguish from a pile of garbage. But somebody thought it was art, cause it's there.

And not all "composition(s) that evoke emotion" are art. A pile of dog doo on the sidewalk evokes an emotion in me, but I wouldn't call it art.

But like I said - I don't have a better definition to suggest.

- bob

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RonMartin(deceased)

RonMartin(deceased)

This makes sense but remember we are not trying to define art. We are trying to decide how one makes "art" There is a difference

imyerhukleberry

I know this is a VERY important topic in Bonsai, that must be the reason it continues to come up.

The professor's definition of art is almost exactly the same as how I previously defined art in another thread here. I think that when he was thinking about his answer on the spot he was considering other issues on the matter and that is why he included the word "pleasing" in his definition. This is ofcourse not needed. Emotions are many times not pleasing at all. One must also included "intent" when defineing art. This is the difference between succesfull and unsuccesfull art.

A good exercise to come to your own conclusion of art would be to ask yourself, "Is a painting, or photograph of a nude figure art, or pornography?"

Defining "pornography" will certainly assist you in the discovery of ART...

RonMartin(deceased)

Go back and re-read the original question. It is not "what is art" Like I said there is a difference. As far as I know the question I am asking has not been asked before on any forum at any thime ;o)

Cosen

Hmm had to react to this one
I don't know anything yet about art but this sound's like turning it around

Maybe a good picture of a pile of dog doo that evoke an emotion can be art ?
If stand in front of a huge very old tree it can evoke an emotion maybe its not art.
If i have a bonsai that evoke that same emotion by me and other people could it be art then ?

Im beginner offcourse i have no answer on how to create an bonsai that is art.
Meanwhile i just read about it look at ehebition real good and just try to aply the things i read to my bonsai while a think about it.

Just as in the pleasing bit i read that article of Andy abu the bar branch and why that could be less pleasing. Trying to avoid it (offcourse trying to look at the whole picture) maybe the answer will come as i advance.
Have to start somewhere ain't i ?

Maybe finding the right questions is better then looking for answers

Gr. Dave