Apple X Pear Bonsai?

fern

I was wondering if anyone knew about using an apple x pear tree as a bonsai? My mom has one in her front yard and I would like to take a few cuttings...but i want to know if they will make good bonsai before I cut.

Thanks!
Fern.

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ripsgreentree

Fern;
When you use fruit trees for bonsai it is importiant to know that you will not be able to reduce the size of the fruits. If you are succesful in making a cutting and growing it into a mature bonsai your minature tree will produce the same size apple or pear that is on your full sized tree. This would spoil the effect or appearence of your minature tree. Just something to think about. You may also like to know that there is wild stock (root stock) for apple and pear that is very minature and produces exelent minature trees.
It may also be of intrest for you to know that most fruit stock is propigated by grafting and not cutting. Although if you do decide to take a limb out of your full sized tree you may concider airlayering a limb off next spring.
Just more to think about, have fun in your bonsai efforts.

Glenn

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ripsgreentree

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Emperor Fish

Personally, I find full size apple bonsai (as opposed to crabs) absolutely enchanting in a weird sort of way.

Fish.

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fern

Thanks for all of your suggestions and comments. The fruit on my mom's tree is pretty small (golfball size), but that could be becuase the tree is immature, or maybe my mom isn't giving it the proper fertilizers. If I did take a cutting, would it be possible to grow it as a bonsai purley for the beautiful white flowers and trunk shape and either cut off the fruits or never show the tree after the fruit has gotten disporportionately large for the tree?

Fern

Carl_Bergstrom

Tell that to Kyosuke Gun!

(Image from The Bonsai Photo Guide.)



Or to those novices at Bonsai Today, for that matter.

-OMC

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ripsgreentree

OMC;
Blessings to you Carl! If you look at the picture that you provided as the Kyosuki Gun example it presicely shows my point. When you compare the fruit size to the tip of the mans finger you can see that a full sized apple would be bigger than the entire pot sitting on the mans hand.

The point that I was making is just something that a young enthusiast should be aware of not something written in stone.

Now, if you want to go into the books to prove that my point is invalid. Check the Japanese publications and show the top ten species of tree that are used for Fruiting Bonsai and show what percentage of them are created from trees that produce full sized fruits.
You have already shown Quince but did not mention that the tree is mostly grown for trunk and winter sillouette more than fruit.

Personally, you can make Bonsai out of anything that will servive in a Bonsai pot, but if you take into concideration perspective and the desire to create a minature tree that has the appearence of its full sized counterpart, my advice is sound. If it is not why do we spend so much time trying to reduce the size of the leaves on our bonsai.

Glenn

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ripsgreentree

It requires an open hand to give and to recieve.

Jose_Alberto

Why you have to fight about everything? I think both of you are right. Carl is right, and has shown with pics that there can be full sized fruiting bonsai that look great. Anyway what Glen says is also right (IMHO), because while fruiting, you loose some of the effect that the miniature trees are all about, right?

Anyway, Fern, I would go for the cutting, althought with not much expectations... But, meanwhile I would try an airlayer. I mean, I would try an airlayer, but also some cuttings Anyway, I have only rooted willow cuttings hehehe...

well, that's all I wanted to say...

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Carl_Bergstrom

Blessings to you also, Glenn!

Your remark that fruit does not typically reduce in size was a good point to make - I certainly had no idea of this when I started in bonsai. But I guess I took objection to the notion that large fruit spoils the effect because it spoils the scale, and I took objection to this precisely because it was something I used to believe and something that I am more and more moving away from in my thoughts about bonsai design.

Let me contrast two viewpoints. On one hand, one might aim for accurate miniaturization, much as one would in model railroading. In this view, smaller leaves would always be better (until you reached the tiny leaf-to-trunk ratio seen in full-sized trees). When I started bonsai, I thought this was what it was all about. But if true, Tom Thumb cotoneaster and Kingsville boxwood and the extreme dwarf hemlocks and such and similar would be the last word in bonsai, and a black pine with needles 1/10th or even 1/20 the height of the tree would be grotesque, and shohin Japanese maples would be simply absurd.

On the other, one might aim to convey certain feelings, irrespective of the accuracy of the miniaturization. A black pine might convey ruggedness of bark contrasted with vitality of foliage, and might well do so better with lush green 4 cm needles than with scale-appropriate 2 mm needles.

To me, fruiting bonsai speak of the abundance of nature. Kyosuke Gun's overly-large crab apples, a persimmon hanging from a thin bough no longer than the length of the fruit, or a quince dwarfing the tree from which it hangs - these veritably sing of nature's plentiful generosity.

With fond regards,
Carl

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fern

Wow, I didn't mean to start THAT debate again, but now that its started I'll throw my two cents in. I think people care waaay to much about what other people think about bonsai design. If you want to be very traditional, go for it. If you want to be avant garde, good luck to ya. Creating bonsai should be about your own self fullfillment, not about how many congratulations you can get when you post pictures on bonsai forums. Do what is pleasing to your own eye, afterall its you who is going to have to stare at them in your back yard!!!

That said, I was looking for advice on whether propagation via cutting works well with apple pear hybrids and the best way to do so. I was also wondering if people had any advice about the care of apple x pears...is it the same as apple trees or more like pears, or do both trees need pretty much the same treatment? The branches look like those of a pear tree but the fruits look like green apples but taste like pears.

I appreaciate all past and any future advice. You guys never cease to amaze me with the depth of your knowledge!!!

Fern.