Any really old bonsai trees on here?

Larry

Just a thought I had. We all know that many trees can live to a rip old age, but are there any bonsai trees out there that are older than or close to the usual oldest recorded age of that particular species?

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Jay

Larry,
Remember, we do not actually care how old a tree is. What we do care about is what the age of the tree appears to be.

Jay

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Larry

Yes I understand that of course, but was just curious to see a bonsai that was genuinely as old as the tree it represents.

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TreeBay

There are plenty of ancient bonsai, but I don't really understand the question. I am having difficulty understanding what you mean by "out there" and how any tree (bonsai or not) could be known to be older than the oldest recorded age is kind of a paradox.

I don't know about records for different species, but supposedly cherry trees, (most fruit trees are relatively short lived) can thrive longer as bonsai than as garden or orchard trees. There are lots of old California Juniper out there. These are probably among the oldest trees (shrubs?) you are likely to run across as bonsai.

Regards,

Matt

Regards,

Matt

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Larry

well, by out there I meant on here, any growers on here with a really old specimen rather than simply looking old.
Its hard to explain. Its true that no-one can really say how old a black pine for example lives for as they tend to outlive us humans, but lets say we give it an average of 200 years. I was wondering if anyone knows of a bonsai of a similar age or older.
Simple curioisty.

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Frogboy

I think the general question is:

What are some of the oldest confirmed ages of trees owned by the members of this forum?

The question didn't seem to me to be an attempt to spark any thoughtful debate or discussion, just scratching a curiosity itch, which I also have. Anybody out there own any really ancient trees?

For my part, I'm more interested in trees that have been in training for a long time, not really yamadori that could be 1,000 years old but have only been in a pot for a few years. But I can't speak for Larry.

Frog

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Robert

At the Golden State Bonsai Federation's Collection-North, located at Oakland, California, Lakefront Park, Lake Merritt, there is a Japanese Black Pine, (Pinus Thunbergi) reputed to be about 400 years old. Sorry I don't have a picture, but it's a beautiful tree.
The tree was originally brought as a bonsai sent by the Government of Japan to San Francisco for the 1916 Panama/Pacific Exposition, (World's fair celebrating the opening of the Panama Canal).....After the exposition it was not sent back to Japan but was bought by a person in San Francisco. The owner hired a young bonsaist from Berkeley to care for the tree. The "young man" was Mas Imasumi. Mas cared for the tree for many years, and when the owner became old and in poor health he gave the tree to Mas as his own. Mas kept the tree on his property in Berkeley, California.

(First attachment Mas Imazumi w/ Pine @ REBS 2002 - Photo by Mac Barker)

When the GSBF-Collection-North opened in November, 1999, Mas offered it "on loan" to the collection for the first few months. He then brought it back to his home in Berkeley where it remained until last year, when Mas died. Mas had bequeathed this tree to the Collection-North where the tree remains under the care of the Collection's Curator, Kathy Shaner.

I think this might be one of the oldest documented bonsai, (not necessarily the oldest tree) in the United States. Also, I imagine that Japanese Black Pines "in nature" live for longer than 400 years....so I'm not suggesting that this tree has greater than "normal" longevity, but it IS a very old and beautiful, well maintained bonsai.
Mike Page tells us about his "very old" California Juniper.....which has been in a bonsai container for just a few years. It is a very old tree, but not necessarily an "old bonsai".

At the same Collection-North there is a California Juniper donated by the late John Naka, (presented by John at the opening of the Bonsai museum) which is estimated to be more than 500 years old.....although it was collected
by John, (and I think along with Harry Hirao) some years ago.

(Second attachment -John Naka with Juniper Nov 6, 1999 Photo by Matt Chroust)

At the Collection-North there is another noteworthy tree which we call the "Abraham Lincoln" tree. It's a Daimyo Oak. The story goes that in 1863 Abraham Lincoln sent his Secretary of State to China to investigate some political conditions in China. The Secretary of State was named Anson Burlingame, (after whom the City of Burlingame, California, is named). Well, Secretary Burlingame went to China via Japan, and while passing through, the Emperor of Japan presented him with this Daimyo Oak bonsai. Obviously this tree had a certain age and status as a bonsai, (The Emperor of Japan doesn't present "mallsai" to visiting dignataries), and Mr. Burlingame had the tree sent back to the U.S. to California where his wife was staying. Mr. Burlingame went on to China where, unfortunately, he died.
At this point the history of the tree in California becomes somewhat vague....as to who had it and how it was maintained, BUT, some years ago when the National Arboretum in Washington, D.C. opened, the tree was offered to them.....but they turned it down because it had overgrown (too large)....and and had "grown out" of it's training pattern. When the Collection-North opened, the tree was then offered to the Collection, and the Curator, Kathy Shaner gladly accepted the tree. It was overly large and quite "scraggly"....but Kathy began a program of training and nurturing so that now the tree is looking "like a bonsai" and it quite attractive even with its re-bars and heavy wires etc.

(Third attachment pre-styling with Kathy Shaner Yasuo Mitsuya; Nov 6, 1999- Photo by Matt Chroust)

Some people call this tree the "oldest DOCUMENTED bonsai" in the U.S.
In addition to its historical significance, the tree also teaches us some other things.....that the living part of the tree is the bark, because the entire interior of this tree has been rotted out, and it's something like a "tube" of bark which is growing and vibrant. Also, Daimyo Oaks arn't necessarily currently considered good bonsai material because they have rather large leaves which don't reduce in size with the bonsai process; but styles and tastes change. When this tree was presented to Anson Burlingame it WAS acceptable to have bonsai with large leaves.

More recently the Collection has accepted two other, younger Daimyo Oaks and I think most people find them attractive, even with their large leaves.
I'm a docent at the Collection-North, and I enjoy my work there. I hope this hasn't become too wordy, and I hope it's helpful to the original inquiry about "how old are some bonsai".

Robert........in Sta.Cruz

Attached Images

	mas_pine.jpg (51.3 KB, 132 views)
	gsbf_nakatree_sm.jpg (16.5 KB, 133 views)
	gsbf_kathy_mitsuya_sm.jpg (15.0 KB, 135 views)

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Ralph

Robert I enjoyed your stories very much.

Thanks

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TreeBay

Robert, I added pictures of the three trees you wrote about in your post.

Regards,

Matt

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