Andy's Bonsai Palaver

agraham

Ron is a professional and a teacher....and should be held accountable for his statements and opinions.....

Andy R. is a self promoter and a "critic" known for his lack of tact and complete and obsessional opinion that bonsai should be considered ART and treated with due reverance

there is obviously a grudge between them....that (imho) should not have been brought here

Ron, did you really care whether Andy attributed that quote to you?....or did you just want to point out what an a@@ he can be?....because if it's the latter,most of us,even those of us who agree with many of his points already know it

andy

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RonMartin(deceased)

FWIW Yes I do care and no it is not just a grudge. Don't expect you to believe it but those are the facts.
Andy swiped words. I guess a lot of people don't think that is a big deal. Taking those words did not make him an ass it made him wrong.
Yes I am a professional and should be held accountable for my opinions. Even if I weren't one I should be.
Funny thing about the whole affair is that if I substituted "word" for "picture" those that have laughed the most would be singing a different tune. Or at least in the past they have done so.
I guess the problem this time is that the person mentioning the problem is Ron Martin and the problem is words.
That seems to be a stumbling block for some.
But I promise that problem is no more. It is an easy thing to fix.

Carl_Bergstrom

It depends whether the picture was passed off as one's own for commercial purposes, or whether it was held up as an example of ignorance.

"But a picture? How could that illustrate ignorance?", you ask.

And besdies, would our own Andy Rutledge be the sort of person to make an example of such a picture?

Just for fun, let's take a walk down memory lane: Take a look at this (really great) thread: http://forum.bonsaitalk.com/showthr...=&threadid=4669

Here Andy called attention to some pictures that illustrated a critical mistake. Now in this case, the photographer was upset that his name was not withheld! The photographer felt that he'd been singled out for public humiliation. I believe that was not the case (much as I do like the photographer in question).

Moral: Damned if you, damned if you don't.

[Note: Edited heavily to get rid of the most tedious bits of my polemicizing.]
-Carl

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In love with trees

Attila

I have to go with Andy on this one. When it comes to criticism, the wisest and most tactful thing to do is to criticize the action and not the person. You can love the person and still condemn his actions. Andy did just that: he took a statement that he thought of as detrimental to the practice of bonsai and made his point. He didn't want to bring in names and get personal. After two days of watching this develop, I still can't see a better way of doing this. The statement he used was a public opinion on a public forum, not copyrighted and nothing original about it.

In the media, this is done hundreds of times every day around the world. Nothing unethical about it. It's just wrighting an opinion about other people's opinion.

I think Ron overreacted and turned this into a script worthy of those late-night comedy shows.

I hope one day Ron will see the bright side and laugh about it as hard as some of us here did (sorry Ron, I still like you, if that matters at all).

Regards,
Attila

John Dixon

Holy horticulture Batman!!!! As my hero Al Bundy would say, "Let's rock".

Ron, you crack me up. You love this war of words, admit it!!!


Andy, you must love to type. I enjoy reading your posts regardless of whether I agree. You also love this war of words, admit it.


While I didn't cut off my ear, I have knicked my fingers with my shears from time to time. Am I an artist now?

I've got great news. I save a bunch of money by switching to Geico.

Sorry, but we need to lighten up a little bit. Enjoying bonsai is what the point is (and you know you do).

It strikes me as important to include a comment from Picasso that is on a painting my daughter did in the 2nd grade (sorry if it isn't verbatim):

"There's an artist in every child. The trick is staying an artist when you grow up".

Wise words.

My best to you guys,

John

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John Dixon

Si vis pacem parabellum

Stay off the trails of others, that's where the booby-traps are.