Andy Rutledge's Bonsai Palaver is Back!

TreeBay

Andy Rutledge's Bonsai Palaver site came back online after a brief hiatus during which visitors were redirected to http://www.psych.org :



OF NOTE: Today there is a new "Forum Blotter" feature, which leads this writer to suspect that Mr. Rutledge continues to follow the forums, if not to actively participate.

You can also read Andy Rutledge's latest opinion piece, Despising the Unattainable, about articles in bonsai magazines and the quality of the material involved, with an emphasis on reasons why the publications and writers would not want to illustrate points with more accessible (read: mediocre) bonsai materials.

My comments?

1) Glad to see Palaver is back. It was an interesting and entertaining read.

2) Too bad about Andy's decision not to participate in the online forums. Maybe we should have a pool on how long people think that will last? Andy's last known bonsai Forum post Fri, Mar 12, 04 at 12:26

3) Regarding the opinion article, I guess I am surprised that there is a faction of enthusiasts that has a problem with articles containing good trees, but I never see their Letters to the Editor. I did see the writing on the wall toward the end of Bill's tenure, a couple years ago, when BT started translating "chopsticks" as "little sticks," I knew we were in for trouble. Later they began to run articles on Superfeeding and trees called "Stormcloud Tiger" and "Expanding Ego," or somesuch nonsense, and I let my subscription lapse for a year.

Comments? Post 'em if you got 'em.

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FredL

First of all, ley me say that I like Andy. Alot! I was very disappointed when he decided to no longer "cast his pearls before us swine". He is entertaining, smart and opinionated, all of which makes him a wonderful guy to exchange views with.

Wth this said, he is also not normally the quickest guy in the room to understand and apprecaite points of view other than his own. It's not hard to imagine that this quality had something to do with his decision to leave the on-line forums. That and the fact that he really devoted alot of his time to them; time that I always suspected could be used to do something that addressed his financial woes, which he mentioned from time to time. I imagine that if I were his wife, I be getting kind of P Oed at some point regarding this particular issue.

I concur with the comments about BT. I guess in life just about any change means something gained and something lost. I was thinking about sending in detailed comments about the current issue. Just my own personal reactions, without presuming to elevate them to Fred's Universal Truths. Among other things, I was going to say that I felt discouraged by the first article on grafting roots. I will NEVER in this lifetime be able to do what that article was demonstrating and if that's what it takes to be a simple part-time hobbiest, well, I'd better try model airplanes or something else. I had the same reaction you did to the article about Green Panther or whatever it is. What overly precious, self-absorbed nonsense! What a turn off! I'd NEVER want one of my friends who I think might possibly develop an interest in Bonsai to see this article! Finally, I LOVED the articles on fruiting varieties and working with young trees. As well as the gallery.

I, myself, am not too crazy about the efforts to Westernize. the treatment of Bonsai. I LIKED the predominant content of BT when it was Japanese. I was happy to see the English translations of articles improve in quality, but not at the expense of, I guess, making them "culture neutral" Is that the right word? I always felt, and still do, that to really "get" bonsai, you have to enter Japanese culture to some small degree. Now I do not advance this opinion as Universal Wisdom"........just my personal opinion based on my own narrow experience of life.

Anyway, thanks for the comments. It will be fascinating to continue to watch the Andy Rutledge saga as it continues to unfold.

Fred

Daan Muller

I feel that at least a certain level of articles with readilly available (according to Andy this means crummy, but what if someone finds pleasure in working with this material doesnt that make it great material?) would help to bring more people to this great hobby of ours. 'Hey, I could do that!'. I know that I like to read these kind of articles. They make me want to go out and try it. Some examples in Harry Tomlinsons book where he works with material readily availabe in garden centers started me off in bonsai, 'Hey I could do that!'.

Of course there must also be articles with top notch, great material resulting in great bonsai. I find these articles just as interesting, but they would never have made me take up bonsai if those were the only articles I ever had seen. 'No way I could do that!'

regards, Daan

Ralph

Why was it that Andy felt he needed a leave of abscence (AWOL?)from bonsaitalk?

thejimmyrigger

I liked the articles covering techniques that were way out of my league. They showed you a "target" skill level. It'll be a long time before I'm at that skill level, but hey, its cool to see what is possible in the world of bonsai.

A few average trees in BT would be neat, but no, that's not how any other magazine works. A "tree's first styling" column would be really cool, but any publication should show overall excellence in the art. Find any given car magazine, inside you won't find an article on a 1989 brown Ford Taurus, you'll see a mint condition Mustang. You'll see the processes used to recondition that Mustang. I drive a junker, but I like looking at those sweet cars.

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Carl_Bergstrom

A few thoughts:

1. I'm also delighted to see that Palaver is back. It's great fun.
2. Kyosuke Gun is a regular contributor to Bonsai Today. I've almost never seen him do an article on the use of unattainable material. I've also never seen him do an article on poor material. Gun writes articles on how attainable material can be an excellent foundation for excellent bonsai.
3. Full agreement regarding Green Panther.
4. If you prefer articles on how to fashion mediocre bonsai out of poor material, Herb Gustafson has a number of books that may interest you.
5. If you prefer articles on how to fashion mediocre bonsai out of excellent material...well, it's probably not prudent to name names, but they're out there as well.
6. Articles on mediocre material have a short lifetime for any given enthusiast. They're moderately interesting when the enthusiast is a beginner, and essentailly useless thereafter. Articles on excellent material are almost equally useful initially, and merit re-reading every couple of years as the enthusiast develops his or her skills and knowledge base and understanding of the process and art.

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Daan Muller

I feel Andy puts forth a very strong argument against the 'only excellent material in magazines' point himself.

Near the end of his essay he tells how great bonsai artist often start with a piece of poor material and how they then transform this in a stunning specimen using those advanced techniques that Andy only wants to see demonstrated on high quality trees. (The part starts of with: "Point of fact: many of our best bonsai artists have excellent, impressive material that they’ve developed from quite poor specimens...")

I would find it very worthwhile to have an article where you could see one of those best bonsai artists take such a poor specimen and how he turns this in to a stunning specimen.

Of course this would mean that such an article would take a few years from starting to finishing the article, but hey so do bonsai.

regards, Daan

bnsaijim

My comments,

Sorry to say I don't necessarily miss the argument baiting. Nobody does it better than Andy, but what exactly is getting done?

Other than attention drawing, what is the purpose of endless debate? The gad fly ultimately becomes just another pest. It is the man with the whip and the reins that actually gets the horse and the cart moving, not the fly on the horse's arse. Perhaps a swarm incites the driver, but they still do not control the reigns...

I think there is far too much rhetoric without action. I'll have far more respect for Andy if he continues to back up his philosophies with action- i.e., the exhibit in a formal gallery. I'd like to see less acidic belly-aching and more actual positive action toward change.

Sincerely,

Jim Stone
TX

bnsaijim

More...

As a BT subscriber from day 1, I've seen ups and downs in the quality and content.

Perhaps you don't need, understand or care about those grafting articles now. If you continue to read you eventually may. I used to consider all that "unnatural" or too much of a bother. A subscription to BT or any other rag is almost a right-of-passage. You're seeking more involvement or to improve. You've gained enough knowledge to discover that bonsai mags even exist. You'll be surprised what techniques you consider a decade from now.

My copies are extremely worn- I figure I re-read each issue one, two or three times a year. I constantly see new things, little comments that didn't mean anything to me the first 20 times...

True, the trees are often beyond what most are working with. Do not say they are unavailable. I bet Al, myself, or Matt could tell you exactly where to find like material. BUT it takes commitment on several levels. Your alternatives are to apply these techniques to your own trees using the "best of the best" as your guide.

If you want a magazine that uses attainable material, does not waste the majority of space on convention reports and pet rocks, subscribe to BONSAI EUROPE. However don't complain that they are all European species and they still use the traditional terms. ;^)

"I would find it very worthwhile to have an article where you could see one of those best bonsai artists take such a poor specimen and how he turns this in to a stunning specimen. "

Perhaps you don't see it because it's a rarity- a silk purse from a sow's ear. Your opinion of "stunning" may not match mine. I'm a firm believer in the equation good potensai=good bonsai. Bad stock must be made into good potensai first. These are typically very different processes.

There are articles that fit your description, however they take many years to produce; over time you see the more "famous" trees updated, just not necessarily in one article.

More often you see this sort of thing here or on IBC... OR see Colin Lewis's "Bonsai Design". The entire book is a study in tree development.

For all those decades of work, the labor and expense of putting an article together, you get the grand total fee of NADA. Not even a free year's subscription. I doubt you even get a free copy or two of the mag it's printed in. Since I'm not on the teaching circuit right now, my motivation is what?


Sincerely,
Jim Stone