Amur Maple

FredL

I'm becoming a huge fan of this species. In recent years, it has become a favorite of landscaping firms in this area, so it has become common in suburban landscaping, particularly commercial sites. It is obvious looking at its growth habit that it is very well suited to bonsai culture. What I didn't realize until this Spring is how easy it is to start from seed.

Last Fall, I collected a couple of handfulls of seeds from the front of the barbershop I favor near my home. The seeds looked so ratty that I expected the germination rate to be pretty low, so I took a fair number. I distributed them between a couple of clay pots that I put my bonsai soil mix into as well as two or three other pots that I had young material in. Didn't do any thing else special; just put them with the rest of my trees in "Winter Quarters".

I am now the owner of a real "embarrasement of riches" of fledgling Amur Maple seedlings. Guess I'm going to have to take a serious look at Forest Style plantings now. I've got so many of them, but they're so great looking that I don't know how I'm going to just cruelly discard them. Hadn't really thought much about Forest Style in the past. It's now starting to look pretty appealing!

Fred

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Tony

Fred,

That's the thing about starting seeds, it's tough to throw them out so you wind up with hundreds of little pots to stumble over. I'm not very familiar with Amur maple. Do the leaves reduce well?

Tony

Walter_Pall

Fred,

everyone has to go through this. I used to grow vegetables and flowres from seed and had a lot of fun. Twenty yers ago I also tried trees.
Nowadays I think that this has absolutely nothing to do with bonsai, other than it is a little baby tree. It will take ten to twenty years to get a decent bonsai. This will NEVER happen in a small pot. The way to go is to plant these things into a growing field.
It may be fun, but it is a total wastre of time bonsaiwise. Mind you, I still grow tomatoes from my own seed every year with great joy.
Here is a good amur maple of Hans Kastner from Germany. He went to a large nursery and took the best possible maple which was more than 5 feet high. He then stumped it and got this impressive bonsai fifteen years later.

best regards
Walter Pall

Attached Images

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FredL

Walter, thank you for your reply. I may not always agree with what you say, but anything you say I treat with great respect and think seriously about what you are saying.

You make two points which I've been pondering. One is that everybody goes through the stage of growing seedlings. I think that this is because for relative beginners like myself, there is a great deal of value that can be learned from working with seedlings. I've learned alot about what soils mixes will work and which won't, about seasonal effects and how to handle our Winters here, about how roots form and how to develop them in the right direction, about the effects of insects and how to deal with them, etc., etc. There is nobody here to teach me these things and even if there were, I think the hands-on experience I've had with seedlings couldn't be duplicated with any amount of reading bonsai texts or listening to the advice of others, no matter how expert or well-intentioned. I've lost a few in the process, and if these were $10,000 trees or even $100 trees, I'd be heartbroken. With seedlings, it's just a "So that's how it works" experience.

As you've suggested, I've put the majority of my1-3 year olds into 3 grow beds I've allocated from my vegetable garden. I expect to see them grow alot faster than the ones I still have in pots. In the past, voluteers that came up in my vegetable beds grew with amazing speed. Back in California, I planted an acorn beside my house. It was a large tree when I left 12 years later. So, I'm optimistic about developing them into decent material. I still have lessons to learn from the ones still in pots. Even these seem to be growing pretty fast. I'll be surprized if I don't have a number of trees ready for group plantings in another 3 years.

I think for somebody like yourself, what I'm doing would, indeed, have little to do with your practice of bonsai. For me, it's quite different. I have only learned very recently how to get a collected tree with a trunk of, say, 2" (5 cm) out of the ground in reasonably good shape. I started by collecting seedlings that were a year or two old. While I don't go after such trees now, I'm finding their development fascinating and I'd recommend collecting such material to anybody starting out.

Sometimes, I think it's hard for somebody at your level to relate to the experiences and issues of somebody at mine. I find that as I learn more, my interests are changing and I'm tackling things that I wasn't ready for even a year ago. I am very appreciative of you taking your time to respond to my comments. I have learned a great deal from what you've had to say in the past and I've learned something from your comments here. And, thanks for the great picture. I've been kicking myself for not getting a couple of large sized Amur Maples when they were available very cheaply at the end of the year Walmart sale 18 months ago. Unfortunately, I just wasn't ready for them at that time. I'd take them in a minute now.

Best regards, Fred

midwestbonsai

I am also a big fan of the Amur Maple (Acer ginnala). And several club members love the species, for the almost Trident maple look with a much much hardier tree. Good luck.
-Paul

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Newt

"It may be fun, but it is a total wastre of time bonsaiwise."

I guess my only problem with this statement is that what are our kids/grandkids going to use as bonsai material The collectable/collected material will likely be gone. Even if they are not gone, many of use cannot afford that kind of material or do not have access to this kind of land. It is easy for doctors, bankers, lawyers etc to say do not waste time on this crap, cause they can afford to buy trees for $1000 and up. But for some of us we can be perfectly happy and content growing our little seedlings knowing that one day when we die they may actually look like something resembling a bonsai and it is all due to our efforts. While at the same time hopefully working on at least one nice piece of material. But in actuallity even my "nice trees" would be crap to you, but they are nice to me and many others around here.

I guess for me it is more about the practice, the creation, the wireing meditation (when I wire there is nothing else on my mind), the continued learning, the daily watering, pest control, watching the trees change through the seasons, seeing the vast improvements made over 4 years (this is my 4th year growing) and finally learning patiece.

For me even when I do end up giving up on something (a tree that I feel does not have the potential to become anything spectacular, or a troublesome species that I am tired of fighting with) I end up passing it on to someone else who can find enjoyment from it. I have given and taken trees that were given up on. Remeber beauty is in the eye of the beer holder!

Also remeber that much of the imported stock out there was started from seed or cutting at some point! Someone has to "waste their time" on this stuff!

Now that said, I would love to have access to the type of material that you have. You are an inspiration to all of us! I only hope to some day be able to produce the kind of work that you do!!! Just trying to help see the other side of the coin.

Newt

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Opportunity must not be lost while the gods smile.
-Li Jing

Aaron_K

Newt I agree. I've got stock that I've spent close to $300 on. Its great having quality material with a nice fat trunk, good taper and nebari all present for you to begin crafting into a beautiful bonsai. At the other end of the spectrum, I've got lots of young material growing, including many seedlings that I germinated ranging from Japanese maples, Chinese elms, zelkova to Japanese black pines and Colorado blue spruce.

I find it relaxing and rewarding, seeing nature unfold - it never ceases to amaze me and I feel gives me a greater appreciation for trees and wildlife in general. My little brother who is 13 has taken an interest in bonsai, and as such, now has some 1 year old plants with which to care for and watch grow and develop into a bonsai - Hey its cheap and keeps him quiet - "Here's a tree... in a pot.... go knock yourself out kiddo"

Growing from seed need not take decades to see the fruits of your labour. This is particularly prevalent when planting such fast growing species as Bald Cypress and Dawn Redwood. One of my Dawn Redwoods that I germinated from seed in July 2004 is about 3ft tall with just over 2cm diameter base. My 2 year old trees are the same height one having a base flair of nearly 4cm. Within 4 to 5 years, I would imagine these will have a really decent sized trunk with which to begin developing into bonsai.

Seeds are a cheap source of material, and what's the harm of growing them while you practice bonsai on developed stock at the same time? Even if its really slow growing stock. Wouldn't it be nice for a someone to exhibit a tree saying "My Dad" or even "My Grandfather grew this tree from seed waaaaay back in 2005 - when they all still drove petrol engined cars!". The tree becomes a living heirloom.

Seedlings also provide the beginner with a good base to learn about the horticulture of the individual species and how to apply and adapt that to bonsai techniques.

Even the mightiest of oaks was once an acorn.

All the best,

Aaron

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