American Bonsai in decline

farrlinzee

I was really surprised to find that both the management of this forum and Bonsai Today magazine consider that Bonsai is in a state of decline in the USA.

On face value I can't accept this assertion even if it's the opinion of those who SHOULD know.

Can anyone provide statistical or informed information that supports this.

I'd love to hear all opinions.

Cheers

Lindsay

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Vonsgardens

While the club system may or may not be in decline, the overall state of bonsai seems fine. If you look at the rise of quality of trees among the "young' master quality artists, the myriad of extremely talented "middle-knowns" and the tremendous amount of time some of the Europeans spend in the US- lots happening. I think many find the vast distances between clusters disheartening (as if I need to tell this to someone from Oz... er Aus.....), but if you compress the distances, using tools like the internet, there really is a lot going on.

Maybe I am being optimistic,
John

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Ian_Homer

Hi Lindsay,

Have I missed something....where was that stated on here and by whom?

I know Matt has posted figures up here before with regard to how many people post and view here. Whilst I can't speak up for the American Scene, I know that in the UK and Europe, it is far healthier than 10 years and 5 years ago. The number of outlets have increased and the Quality of shows and the display standards have certainly improved. However, what has declined is the number of "visitors" actually buying wares at the shows to the point that some are now un-viable.

Many prefer to shop locally or on-line, an option that was not available 5 and 10 years ago.

Is this giving a false impression of what is actually happening?

I will now go off on a slight tangent, but one I feel is relevant to your initial post.

With regard to the internet, only a small percentage of Bonsaists actually use these forums.

Bonsai is such a small marketplace and there are now SO MANY forums - is this having a detrimental effect on the on-line benefits of such communities?

In a nutshell, people can only spend so much time on-line (perhaps, I spend too much time here as it is myself ). If we are to be expected to flit from one to another to find out whats going on, we could spend hours and hours a day on it. "Hands on" experience is what counts and experimenting or learning by your own endeavours, via a Club, Masters lesson, Nursery or a more experienced person is still the best way to learn.

Where forums do win, is in the saving of time and distance restraints. Some people live in a Bonsai Wilderness and this form of contact is the ONLY way of meeting like minded individuals.

Like most people here (see recent poll), you settle on one you like and stay in that place. I perhaps only have a quick look at IBC once a month - thats it. Other than that, it's BT all the way!!

So, lets say we divide the regular few hundred or so Bonsaists who have a presence on-line between 4, 6, 8 or even 10 forum sites.
The end result, using the fact stated above, is that we see a dilution of content, fewer posts, poorer quality of talent, less participation and then people wonder why things don't seem as busy as they once were.

One thing I ask myself, why do some take it upon themselves to start other forums? Let's face it, most follow the same format with similar threads, topics and functions.

Is it just a "power thing"? Why not contribute more to the ones that exist?
All too often, we see some regular members rambling along, causing conflict or discussing already beaten to death topics, rather than learning to spend more time actually "on the trees" and then contributing in a more positive manner what they have learnt.

As a specialist and small sector - are we in danger of self-destruction?

What we are certainly failing to do - is attracting "new blood".

You see the same regular faces year after year. How often will a show promotor advertise outside of normal Bonsai circles to attract "Joe Public"?

This is where the enthusiasts of the future will come from. Get more involved, more Public Displays, perhaps by Clubs in Shopping Centres etc.... and just by the law of averages, more will become enthused with the Bonsai spirit making the future brighter.

Oh well, lots of questions, no easy answers, but just some observations of mine.

I look forward to comments from our friends in America on the scene there and from elsewhere in the world.


Best Regards,
Ian

rockm

Bonsai in North America isn't in decline, as much as it is changing. I think.

Knowing how many bonsaiists there are has always been a very tough thing to do. If you count first time mallsai buyers, there are probably a million. Those folks don't buy bonsai magazines though. I'd guess the core of devoted bonsaiists is probably less than 10,000 in the U.S. and Canada.

However, that core buys stuff and is becoming more advanced in their needs every year.

From what I've seen, they are also a pretty independent bunch, more so than the Europeans. Alot of hardcore bonsaiists don't exhibit, attend club meetings sporadically--when Kimura or other "name" makes a local appearance.

The hard core of North American bonsaiists have EXTREMELY nice trees--on a par with anything in Europe--note the trees shown here from the Pacific Northwest. They are but the latest example of the quality of collected trees being worked... Those trees just don't get noticed in glossy magazines or promoted in artist written articles. Most N.A. bonsaiists are content to be "bonsai hermits" working alone for the most part in their backyards or fields.

Addressing such a market is not an easy thing to do. I don't envy anyone trying to do it.

An example of how things have changed--but not exactly declined, from what I can see--A bonsai seller I've known for a dozen years no longer attends shows (other than one or two local, well-attended bonsai-specific shows). They have a bonsai nursery midway between two major metropolitan areas in the Middle Atlantic--They have worked for the last 13 years or so to make the nursery the regional weekend destination for local clubs and bonsaiists. They couldn't justify the time and expense it took to travel to 10 or so East Coast craft and home shows, as well as bonsai shows. They weren't selling enough entry level trees to do so. They now sell higher level stock and "finished" trees and have diversified into Japanese gardening (which they do extremely well). They now fill workshops every weekend in the Spring and summer where they sell lessons, advice and superior workshop stock. This is a subtle shift, but one that isn't unprecedented all over the U.S.

Graydon

I hardly think it is in decline. I doubt anyone can give hard evidence of the demise either. It would be easier to illustrate the rise of American bonsai :

Our local bonsai club is one year old. It was founded by several members from other clubs not willing to make the drive to other cities for their club meetings. We are now over 30 members strong. I would estimate that of those 30 or so members 8 have been involved in bonsai for more than a handful of years leaving 22 new bonsai enthusiasts. No decline there.

Because the club needed a place to have weekend workshops a local mom and pop nursery (owned by a new member) stepped up and offered free space under the shade trees as needed. We have hosted several traveling masters there and now meet monthly on a Saturday morning to work on trees and help each other. It has went so well the nursery owner has invested in starter material and is on the way to devoting an area to pre bonsai sales. No decline there either.

I was inspired by the lack of good and durable turntables so I created a line of products and have started building a network of distributors. I am considering offering more items such as supplies not available locally. I can see nothing but the opportunity for growth here - so again no decline.

Incidentally we as a club have found an opportunity to have 2 shows per year for the general public in our area. Both were a success and were great sources to meet people to build awareness and draw new members.

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tachigi

I usually stay away from commenting on unfounded speculation. However this one particular subject for some reason puts a burr under my saddle. So I apologize in advance if I rant.

The idea that bonsai is in decline,especially in the US is absurd in my mind. I would love to see what factual proof there is to support this. Not some cry in my beer claims from a magazine thats subscriptions are falling due to people just getting tired of the same ole rehash and added fluff.

I would point to actual happenings over the past few years that point in a opposite direction. The most obvious to anyone paying attention is the increase of European artists coming to do tours, or better yet actually setting up shop in the US. A growing bonsai market that has a desire to learn, improve, and bring there art to a new level has fueled this new trend. It from my perspective is a financially daunting task to leave your home land and try to make a living in a new spot even if your touring. Other things you can point to would be a gradual increase club membership (at least in my area), new bonsai business are popping up all over. These new businesses have been around for a while so they must be attracting people. Because I'm sure as the sun gets up in the morning that, we bonsai folk, are not spending more money. I think its goes against our nature. The people who invite vendors to there club and convention shows must think that bonsai is on the rise. Fees have risen substantially for 2007. Finally Wayne Schoech of BT speculated in issue 102 that we were looking at the next bonsai boom.

What I do see is a lack of , how should I put this, national competition here in the US from our own artists and aspiring professionals. Japan has there multiple shows, Europe has there most notible one Ginko, which really sets a standard for the west. When a group from the us went there last they were bowled over. In fact I dare say that when B. Valavanis and J.Adams who accompanied this group, walked in there jaws hit the floor. It would be nice to give our artist's a chance to beat there chests and get that recognition.

I would agree with Rockm that bonsai is changing. It has to with our advancing ability to communicate vitually.

I told you I would rant

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Tom

Shady Side Bonsai
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RonMartin(deceased)

lehket

I don't have much in the line of figures, but I do know that the Baltimore Bonsai Club has gained four or five new members (myself included) this year, and maintains a reasonably active schedule. So at least locally, we seem to be doing all right.

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kingkong

We had the same conversation about ponds and koi on another site. The general opinion was at this point of time, people do not have the free time or extra cash they might of had once. Priorities change and things cycle I guess.