bonsaiTALK Home Page  

Go Back   bonsaiTALK Community > Main > General
User Name
Password
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read
Forum Gallery Weather Journals Links Webring Wiki NEW:Shop
Articles Opinion T.O.D. NEW:Radio Contests Humor NEW: Auctions! Donate


Air layering: theory behind the practice

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
bonsaiTALK Hint: Did you know you can double click any bonsai term on this page for its definition?
Old 2-Sep-2005   #1
Bonsai Barry
Bonsai Barry
Bonsai Barry's a bonsaiTALK supporter! Click Here to find out how you can be one too!
 
Bonsai Barry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec-2004
Location: Santa Maria, CA
Country: USA
Posts: 1,157
Air layering: theory behind the practice

In the book, "Bonsai: Its art, science history and philosophy", author Deborah Koreshoff states, " When severing the layer from the parent plant, more care may be used by cutting through half-way. leaving the layer for a week and then cutting through the rest of the way."

What is the reasoning behind this approach? I can't think of any benefit, but it does seem likely that the new tree spends a week with half of the suppliment supplied by the mother tree.

Any thoughts?
__________________
Bonsai Barry

"Our talent lies in our choices."
Bonsai Barry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Sponsor Message Air layering: theory behind the practice
Advertisement
Forum Sponsor
Old 2-Sep-2005   #2
Will_Heath
 
Will_Heath's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr-2004
Location: Clinton Township, MI
Country: USA
USDA Zone: 6 MI
Posts: 4,227
The tree would also spend a week without the nutrients of the half that is removed as well as losing a week of root development.

Removing all of the bark and applying sphagnum moss immediately works so well on most trees, I do not understand why we would vary the technique. Although I have found that with pines it is beneficial to leave two thin connecting strips of bark, I still apply moss immediately.

I too am interested in the logic behind these thoughts.



Will
Will_Heath is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2-Sep-2005   #3
taipan(deceased)
Nudist Bonsai Farmer
 
taipan's Avatar
 
Join Date: May-2005
Location: Daintree Rainforest & Great Barrier Reef
Country: Australia
USDA Zone: 6tropical
Posts: 565
Hi Will and Barry, I just phoned Kenneth, Deborah's husband and he will ask her tomorrow morning for you. I'll post back here what the theory behind the two separate cuts is.

As far as I can tell using sphagnum moss on conifers can be risky due to the fragility of the roots. If you use sphagnum moss you have to keep checking it to see when the roots are about 1/2 cm long then take the cutting before the roots get a chance to entangle themselves into the moss making it very difficult or even impossible to remove the moss without damaging the very fragile root system most conifers develop through aerial layering.

One thought Kenneth had was to remember to make the aerial layer cut at the exact angle you wish to plant the tree in the soil, This will develop a better root system from the start.

The best way I can see to aerial layer is to cut a pot in half and then place it directly onto the tree at the layer site so the tree can develop roots straight into the soil without the need for transplant.

Normal deciduous trees can be cut and planted with 6-8 weeks but some conifers can take years to form a good root system and not just a callus through which the plant can feed but it will not be enough to sustain the plant if cut and placed into soil.

Patience is a must when aerial layering conifers.

Kenneth reminded me the book was written in the 1980's and as with bonsai, new and exciting techniques are being developed all the time.

Back tommorow with the answer
Happy growing
Tai
taipan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2-Sep-2005   #4
Will_Heath
 
Will_Heath's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr-2004
Location: Clinton Township, MI
Country: USA
USDA Zone: 6 MI
Posts: 4,227
Quote:
Originally Posted by taipan
As far as I can tell using sphagnum moss on conifers can be risky due to the fragility of the roots. If you use sphagnum moss you have to keep checking it to see when the roots are about 1/2 cm long then take the cutting before the roots get a chance to entangle themselves into the moss making it very difficult or even impossible to remove the moss without damaging the very fragile root system most conifers develop through aerial layering.


I solve this problem with all my air-layers by simply cutting the sphagnum moss into 1/8 inch pieces before using it.

Thanks for doing the leg work on these questions, I appreciate it.


Will
Will_Heath is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2-Sep-2005   #5
Bonsai Barry
Bonsai Barry
Bonsai Barry's a bonsaiTALK supporter! Click Here to find out how you can be one too!
 
Bonsai Barry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec-2004
Location: Santa Maria, CA
Country: USA
Posts: 1,157
Quote:
Originally Posted by Will_Heath
The tree would also spend a week without the nutrients of the half that is removed as well as losing a week of root development.

Removing all of the bark and applying sphagnum moss immediately works so well on most trees, I do not understand why we would vary the technique. Although I have found that with pines it is beneficial to leave two thin connecting strips of bark, I still apply moss immediately.

I too am interested in the logic behind these thoughts.



Will

Will, I think the quote may have been misunderstood out of context. I think she agreed with what you said regarding the sphagnum moss. It was at the end of the process, once the roots have formed, the air-layered portion is removed in two steps. First cutting through half of the trunk and, one week later, removing the air-layer completely.
__________________
Bonsai Barry

"Our talent lies in our choices."
Bonsai Barry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2-Sep-2005   #6
Will_Heath
 
Will_Heath's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr-2004
Location: Clinton Township, MI
Country: USA
USDA Zone: 6 MI
Posts: 4,227
Ah, now that makes more sense.
Will_Heath is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2-Sep-2005   #7
Little_John
bonsaiTALK Artisan
 
Little_John's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug-2005
Location: Joplin, MO
Country: USA
Posts: 100
While we are on the topic

Since we're on the topic, I've got a tree that will require air layering. I've done it once successfully and once unsuccessfully. Now, I've leared from reading and practice, so I'm no expert on anything. Jack of all trades master of none...that kind of thing.

Here's the question, one of the books I read said to air layer by cutting into the tree, putting root hormone, put a toothpick in the cut to keep it open, wrap it etc. But they only did one side. Wouldn't that have the tree growing lopsided until the roots on the other side caught up?

Now as I stated I've got a 50% success ratio on this and to me that is unacceptable. Fill me in, bring me up to speed, pretty please.
__________________
Hobby?! It's more like a bad habit.
Little_John is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2-Sep-2005   #8
ripssurf
fugu...mmmm
ripssurf's a bonsaiTALK supporter! Click Here to find out how you can be one too!
 
ripssurf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr-2004
Location: Florida (Brevard County)
Country: USA
USDA Zone: zone 10
Posts: 520
Quote:
Originally Posted by Little_John
Here's the question, one of the books I read said to air layer by cutting into the tree, putting root hormone, put a toothpick in the cut to keep it open, wrap it etc. But they only did one side. Wouldn't that have the tree growing lopsided until the roots on the other side caught up?


I, myself, am no expert either but...

I have found success layering using different techniques for deciduous and coniferous trees.

For my deciduous trees (ie maples) i took a little ziploc tupperware dish and cut a hole in the bottom and a slit in the side. I will freely admit to having stole the idea from another thread on this website (i dont know where it is now, but if you need to have it, i will find it for you later). I then cut a layer of the bark completely away and slathered the ring with rooting hormone, placed peat humus in the container which itself was placed around the ring. I then put the lid on (to keep it moist and humid, and a week later there were roots all over the place. it took about two months to get a successful air layer of a Red Maple (acer rubrum).

for my coniferous trees, i have been following Yuji Yoshimura's techinque as described in his book "The Art of Bonsai". He lists three different techniques for layering, but the one suggested for conifers says to take a copper wire and wrap it slightly below the start of the area you want to layer. the wire must be tight; it must cut into the bark but not sever the cambium. slather the area with rooting hormone, wrap in sphagum moss (the wonder moss) and wrap it with industrial plastic. i havent taken this layer yet, but i have roots about 2-3 inches long poking out of the tree into the moss.

as far as the toothpick goes...i have no idea why you would leave it in, but i have heard of techniques (and done it) where you take a drill and make a whole about the size of a toothpick in the trunk where you want the root to come out. place rooting hormone inside using a toothpick or cotton swab, and roots should form in time.

bonsai barry and Little_John, i know this doesnt answer your questions, but it's a start...

still waiting to hear from taipan...

jeff

ps the best way to learn the techinique is to just do your best and kill the tree (if that's what happens). Eventually, youll figure out how to do it and your success rate will skyrocket.
ripssurf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2-Sep-2005   #9
node
bonsaiTALK Master Craftsman
node's a bonsaiTALK supporter! Click Here to find out how you can be one too!
 
node's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr-2005
Location: The Hague
Country: Netherlands
Posts: 653
Click Here to Skype node
Interesting thread. I always like to have a few pictures with these things, so here's a couple so everybody knows what the talk is all about.

Pic 1: Airlayer on a beech. Ring-method. Closed up on me on the first try, carved it open again, now more or less one year later I got it going pretty good. (done outdoor)

Pic 2: Airlayer on Ficus Benjamina, about 4 weeks into the process. Ring-method as well. (done indoor)
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Airlayer_Fagus_Sylvatica_Atropunicea.jpg (50.1 KB, 65 views)
File Type: jpg Airlayer_Ficus_Benjamina.jpg (64.5 KB, 68 views)
__________________
Whenever you find that you are on the side of the majority, it is time to reform. - Mark Twain
Never let your sense of morals get in the way of doing what's right. - Isaak Asimov
The most savage controversies are those about matters as to which there is no good evidence either way. - Bertrand Russell
node is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2-Sep-2005   #10
bonsaikc
Registered FedEx Sender
bonsaikc's a bonsaiTALK supporter! Click Here to find out how you can be one too!
 
bonsaikc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan-2004
Location: Ottawa, KS
Country: USA
Posts: 1,730
In my opinion, if one has taken enough time to let the roots harden off a bit, severing the layer in one go is no problem. I just pot them up without touching the new roots too much on deciduous trees.

As to the toothpick method. It seems to me that one of John Naka's books talks about sawing halfway through a trunk and inserting a credit card or plastic card into the slot and using rooting hormone. While this may be an effective way to keep your credit limit under control, I think more effective methods have certainly been invented in recent years, including grooving the trunk where you want the nebari and hammering in a tight wire just the size of the groove (deciduous). With many species, cutting only half of the cambium will not be enough of an interruption to force roots to grow.

I have never air layered a conifer, although I am considering trying it on a scots pine.
__________________
Sashi-no-eda.blogspot.com

bonsaikc is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Juniper Air Layering ethanopia General 6 19-Jul-2005 02:54 PM
What is Air Layering? TreeBay bonsaiTALK FAQ 6 28-Nov-2003 06:01 AM
Air Layering Dave Propagation 0 4-Jun-2003 05:00 PM
żĄ Air Layering Japanese Maple !? MushaMan Propagation 7 16-Mar-2002 02:09 AM
Air Layering Instructions (1/3) TreeBay Propagation 13 3-Jan-2002 02:50 PM


All times are GMT -3. The time now is 02:42 AM.


Powered by vBulletin v3.6.5
Copyright ©2000-2007, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.0.0 RC8