Advice Well Ignored

FredL

When I returned to Bonsai 2 1/2 years ago, I quickly discovered the Internet Bonsai Forums. My first several months, I spent on another forum, not to be named, and quickly discovered the Bonsai Caste System. Yours truly, with the humble approach of a relative newcomer learned that he was destined to be a Bonsai Newby, or, as such beings are known in, say, the land of India, one of the Bonsai Untouchables. A state that, it appeared, would likely continue as long as I particpated on that forum.

What I soon learned was that it is the lot of Bonsai Newbies to suffer in silence through the interminable lectures of their betters on all subjects, ranging from bonsai to politics to religion. Speak when spoken to seemed to be the unspoken rule, and when speaking, phrase your comments in the form of questions.

I actually did learn some valuable things during that period, but never did really learn the proper attitude of undying gratitude to my new masters.

I did get quite a bit of advice that was dead wrong, however. Among it:

1. Avoid starting trees using seedlings, or worse yet, seeds. You will soon tire of them and wish you had not wasted your time on them.

I have really enjoyed the time I have spent with my seedlings and am very impressed by what you can learn from them. It is a tremendous joy to watch them flourish and develop. They change more rapidly than more mature trees and it is fun to watch them do so.

2. Stay away from native Pines. Their root systems are too extensive to dig them successfully.

Once I learned (the hard way) to dig evergreens in the Spring here, I've had 16 out of 19 pines survive potting and all of them are flourishing. The are beautiful trees, much like Japanese Red Pines in habit and appearance and I am quite sure will make outstanding Bonsai.

3. Do all potting and repotting in the Spring.

Completely untrue. Potting season is very species dependent. Some species (Pines, Eastern Red Cedar, Peach) must be repotted in the Spring, others (Flowering Quince) are best done in the Fall and others (Winged Elm, Amur Maple, Hophornbeam) don't care.

4. Soil mix advice

I definitely brought down the wrath of the Village Elders with my thoughts on soil mixes. Boy! I was so elated when I bought John Naka's books and found that he recommended almost exactly what I had come to believe was what I wanted to use. When I pointed this out to the Village Elders, they explained to me, hopeless dolt that I was, that everybody who was anybody in the Bonsai Community of Today realized that Naka was seriously behind the times and that, anyway, he had recanted many of his other views and probably would on this one also.

Well, hope that some helpful information may be mixed with my bitter and meanspirited comments about my former self-appointed gurus. Among it, what a wonderful spirit pervades this site and my appreciation of it.

Best regards, Fred

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Travesty34

All I can say is Bravo Fred! Well said! I have been knocked for my lack of experience. I maintain plants and trees for my pleasure and what I want from it. If someone else gets pleasure from them, then I feel that much better about it. There are people who try to shove things down your throat, only because they have read or been told by someone else without actually experiencing it. Their way is the only way!!!! I do appreciate much of the advice given on this board. There seems to be a lot of people here that really care. I am not a Bonsai purist so forgive me, but I do use Bonsai techniques. Maybe some day I will have a tree worth showing, without feeling the size of a dime. All the best.

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Adam_MA

Right on Fred!
I have been on many other forums myself, and I still go to them on occasion, but I am proud and happy to call BonsaiTalk my home! For all the reasons you stated above and many other small ones too (one today for instance when someone was telling the poster that their tree didn't belong in that particular forum, yet is is more than acceptable for the "master" members to do so with the same material). If it weren't for needing something to read when I have read all the new stuff here, I would never leave.

Thanks for posting you are definitely not alone


Adam

Attila

Hi Fred,

Since Andy's unfortunate retirement (as in "hermit", "recluse" - just kidding Andy), we are in dire need of essays on this forum: The ones that one can savour during the lunch break.

Your essay is a pretty decent attempt to fill that gap, although I recommend that next time you should make it twice as long to cover the entire half hour.

Bonsai is, like Woody Allen said: "...you know, it's like everything else".
Some people get great pleasure from growing trees from seeds and cuttings.
Others get great pleasure from putting down the weak and defenseless.
There are many more pleasures that I am not going to list here.
Different strokes for different folks.

Best regards,
Attila

mkonig

Hi Fred

Your article may be a bit harsh on some of the subscribers to the "other" forum but there is definetly a lot of truth in what you say.

As a relative bonsai novice of some 8 years experience, I have taken advise from a multitude of people, but nothing has given me more experience (and pleasure) than raising trees from seed, nuturing them and seeing them develop.

I treat all advise I get as suggestion, not rule and then experiment. (No need to reinvent the wheel, but a better axle bearing may just make it run that bit smoother.)

Now in my mid 40's, I still collect seed from native trees every year and sow them. I keep the strongest seedlings with the hope of growing them on and using them for a bonsai creation in the future. Others are grown on in a garden bed for a year or two and then donated to schools for their wildlife gardens or for annual tree plantings in the new National Forest Scheme here in the Midlands (UK) where we are trying to re-establish a large area of mixed native forest.


Regards

Mike

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I refuse to have a battle of wits with an unarmed person

RonMartin(deceased)

Gosh I hope you guys aren't talking about me.

Lesley

FredL,

I too am proud to call BonsaiTalk my home. As a newbie, last year I collected and planted seeds from my neighborhood. It was fun and I learned alot and even have some decent seedlings that are growing well this year (not as many as sown-a lesson also learned). I second all of your emotions... ! Pun?!? and no Ron et all we are not talking about you or any of our other great teachers here!

Lesley

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Ladybug

pdbbonsai

Fred,

Kudo's to you. Well said.

Paul

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It is essential to experience all the times and moods of one good place. (Thomas Merton)

BonsaiTalk is one good place. (me)

Tony

Big brother is watching, Fred.

Third post down.

http://forums2.gardenweb.com/forums...40727733.html?5



Actually I think this feuding between the forums is hilarious. As I've said here before, I've posted on both for years and don't really have an ax to grind. You're going to find strongly opinionated people wherever go. I've been growing trees from seeds and cuttings since about 1991 and don't regret a bit of it. We've actually had some pretty good debates over there on the pros and cons of bonsai from seeds and you'll always find me taking up for the pro side. Just because the "village elders" don't agree is no reason to leave. It makes me want to prove my point that much more. Besides, nowadays, alot of the people that post there also post here so what's the difference? It's just a part of life. If you have an opinion and let it be known it won't be long until someone comes by and disagrees with you.

Tony